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 Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)

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Reaperfan
Kelbi


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PostSubject: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:20 pm

Hey all, I'm new here and new to this game and I need some advice.

From what little I've read on some topics here, it seems like more people use Heavy Bowguns over Light Bowguns. Why? I realize it's probably just lack of practice on my end, but the slow movement speed and sheathing times of the heavy bowguns always seems to get me into more trouble than the additional damage they offer is worth, while the increased mobility of the light bowguns makes it easier to constantly maintain proper distancing throught a hunt (at least in solo play, I've not played online in a group yet). Are Light Bowguns even worth using and is there some secret to Heavy Bowguns I just haven't learned, or am I okay sticking with Light Bowguns as a main weapon?

Thanks in advance!
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PAiN---
Rathian


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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:28 pm

There is no better between the two. Light bowguns are really good for elemental/status while HBG is extremely powerful in terms of dealing raw damage. Don't underestimate the power of either of them.
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Reaperfan
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:44 pm

@PAiN--- wrote:
There is no better between the two. Light bowguns are really good for elemental/status while HBG is extremely powerful in terms of dealing raw damage. Don't underestimate the power of either of them.

I'd heard it said once before that Light Bowguns were designed to act as a support role in a group while Heavy Bowguns were for damage, so I guess what you said kind of reinforces that, huh?

Any tips on how to use the Heavy Bowguns well? I really would like to figure out both kinds, but I just can't figure it out...

If I keep sheathing/unsheathing to work on my positioning, I hardly get time to get any shots in because of the slow sheathing times, but if I keep it out in order to always be ready to fire I can't reposition without rolling and draining my stamina. Not to mention I can never seem to find time to even use the Crouching Fire for more than a couple shots before getting hit out of it or forced to cancel it to move...
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PAiN---
Rathian


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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:26 am

Depending on the users intentions, yes they can be used for support, but they can also deal a lot of damage alone. 4 people using LBG's can easily speed run an Abyssal Lagiacrus under a minute, or any monster really. It's the same for HGB's as well.

For a heavy bowgun, you really want to know your monster and whats the best ammo to use. You really don't have to constantly sheathe and unsheathe when using the HBG, with Evade Extender or Evasion +1/2, you can keep your weapon unsheathed and just evade and move through monsters attacks, then setup for shooting. It's gonna take practice to learn how to evade then quickly adjust your aim back to the monster, especially with guns that have deviation. Bowguns take a lot of patience when it comes to learning the mechanics, and how they are used. Crouch fire you really want to time this right because your very open to attacks.

Really the best advise is to practice and practice.

Beginners guide: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii-u/683294-monster-hunter-3-ultimate/faqs/66937

Here's a really good video for gunning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ2ogTDISXA


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bill_the_noob
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:35 am

the skill "evade extender" is one of your top priority on a HBG so you can keep in range without sheathing/unsheating, which as you noticed takes too much time
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PAiN---
Rathian


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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:25 am

@bill_the_noob wrote:
the skill "evade extender" is one of your top priority on a HBG so you can keep in range without sheathing/unsheating, which as you noticed takes too much time

^Agreed, Evade Extender and Normal/Pierce Up are your two priority skills for a HBG. Following that, if your using it for Normal shots, damage skills would be nice to have, and for pierce or pellet, Recoil Down+1 is ideal to have.
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Reaperfan
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:35 pm

@PAiN--- wrote:
@bill_the_noob wrote:
the skill "evade extender" is one of your top priority on a HBG so you can keep in range without sheathing/unsheating, which as you noticed takes too much time

^Agreed, Evade Extender and Normal/Pierce Up are your two priority skills for a HBG. Following that, if your using it for Normal shots, damage skills would be nice to have, and for pierce or pellet, Recoil Down+1 is ideal to have.

Thanks for the input, guys (or girls. with the internet, who really knows?) Having just beaten Ceadeus and unlocked only the first tier of High-rank Village quests, what gunner armor should I be looking towards making first? Both the Wroggi S armor and Lagiacrus Armor have Normal Up, so maybe those while I work with Light Bowguns until I find something with Evade Extender to make the switch to Heavy?
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Rathian


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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:28 pm

I’d recommend getting the Ceadeus HBG while you’re at it. I believe the base weapon is called Moby Deus? It has pretty good damage when upgraded, and is a good Normal Shot weapon for early in the game. In high rank, Rathalos Soul would be best for Normal Shots when you get to him, but since you just got to High Rank, Wroggi S wouldn’t be too bad.. it has 6 slots, with an Evasion +4 Talisman, you could gem in Evasion+1, if your struggling with some of the monsters, you may want to consider getting Evasion so you can dodge and learnt he moves. The Volvidon S armor is pretty decent with the AuM and Evasion+1.
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Reaperfan
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:09 pm

Another quick bowgun-related question:

Does the food ability "Felyne Sharpshooter" stack with the armor ability "Normal Up"?

EDIT:  Also, I've finally started trying out Heavy Bowguns instead of just sticking with Light Bowguns.  I made the Jhen Mohran HBG and upgraded it once and was really impressed with the damage.  This being the only HBG I've made I don't know how it stacks up with others.  Which ones are worth looking into making? (keeping in mind I only just started G-rank Quests)
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:17 pm

Most food effects do not stack with their equivalent armor skill. Felyne Temper does not have an armor skill equivalent, so you could go that route if you already have normal shot up, however, it will increase your deviation.
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PAiN---
Rathian


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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:25 pm

Yes, kitchen skills stack with armor skills.

The Jhen HBG is a great starter HBG, especially if you upgraded it all the way to Hallowed Dracannon. It was actually my first one as well. It has a large Normal Lv3 clip, 12 shots? No deviation, and you don't need the limiter attached imo, i never used it. Since your just starting, Full Azure Soul (high rank) is the best and easiest to go for.

Griffon Blazooka
Eclipse Gambit
Nether Salvatore
Arken Antiphon
Altheos Aetheria

These are probably the best HBG's in the game that you should go for, I also use Precision Peco Pico and The Hexclamation for the lulz.

@Sephastus wrote:
Most food effects do not stack with their equivalent armor skill. Felyne Temper does not have an armor skill equivalent, so you could go that route if you already have normal shot up, however, it will increase your deviation.

Hm, I never noticed if they did or not, but I've always thought they did regardless if they were the same buff o.O someone should confirm this ^.^
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Reaperfan
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:47 pm

@Sephastus wrote:
Most food effects do not stack with their equivalent armor skill. Felyne Temper does not have an armor skill equivalent, so you could go that route if you already have normal shot up, however, it will increase your deviation.

Temper is what I've been mostly using, but the deviation has been annoying me a bit so I just wanted to make sure. If I could have used Sharpshooter it would be nice not to have those wobbly shots anymore.

@PAiN--- wrote:
Yes, kitchen skills stack with armor skills.

The Jhen HBG is a great starter HBG, especially if you upgraded it all the way to Hallowed Dracannon. It was actually my first one as well. It has a large Normal Lv3 clip, 12 shots? No deviation, and you don't need the limiter attached imo, i never used it. Since your just starting, Full Azure Soul (high rank) is the best and easiest to go for.

Griffon Blazooka
Eclipse Gambit
Nether Salvatore
Arken Antiphon
Altheos Aetheria

These are probably the best HBG's in the game that you should go for, I also use Precision Peco Pico and The Hexclamation for the lulz.

@Sephastus wrote:
-snipped for redundancy-

Hm, I never noticed if they did or not, but I've always thought they did regardless if they were the same buff o.O someone should confirm this ^.^

It's not all the way to Hallowed yet, I've only upgraded it once to it's red rarity upgrade. Having just started G-rank I've still got a long ways to go before I can even fight Hallowed Jhen :|

Also good news on the armor, since that's the armor I've been using for a good while now. Saves me some effort I guess Yes by vort

And while I can't say I've strictly tested it, whenever I do try to go for Sharpshooter with Normal Up active it never gives me the message that Sharpshooter activated immediately after eating, and Sharpshooter doesn't show up in my skill list. I kinda assumed they didn't stack from those instances, but I just wanted to be sure.

Also, what are the root weapons of all those HBGs you listed? I assume they're fully upgraded versions of other lower-tier HBGs if they're considered the best in the game, right?

And here's a quick thought I've just had while typing out this post. With the low reload/recoil rates on the Jhen HBG, would it be beneficial at all to make an armor set that focuses on upping my reload/recoil to alleviate this weakness and use Sharpshooter to fill in for the loss of Normal Up?
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Rathian


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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:34 pm

If it didn't show up directly after eating, that means you didn't activate the skills. If you eat Fresh foods you get a higher chance to activate the skills. For example you can activate Felyne Sharpshooter if your using Blademaster, and you will see Felyne Sharpshooter grayed out. But im 99.9% sure kitchen buffs do stack with Armor skills of the same buff.

Griffon Blazooka - Diablos, Dual Threat (Nero's Blazooka is buyable, which goes into Griffon)

Eclipse Gambit - Nargacuga, Hidden Gambit

Nether Salvatore - Lagiacrus, Lagia Blitz (Nether Salvatore is buyable)

Arken Antiphon - Ceadeus, Moby Deus

Altheos Aetheria - Alatreon, Chaos Wing

Yes, these are the fully upgraded versions.

I wouldn't worry about the recoil/reload speed lol. You want Normal S Up, and AuM at the least. AuL would be preferable, Critical Eye is nice. Since your new to it, Evade Extender or Evasion+1 is recommended. HBGs are good for Raw power, so you want to make sure you get those buffs. A set that i had for awhile was full Azure Soul gemmed for CE+2, AuM, Normal S Up, Earplugs, and Evade Extender. See if you can get something like that, or better xD

EDIT: scratch that, it didn't have Evade Extender and AuM, i had Evade Extender only at one point, then CE+2 and AuM. Evasion isn't really necessary if you know how to evade, but it's great for beginners.
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Reaperfan
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:49 pm

@PAiN--- wrote:
If it didn't show up directly after eating, that means you didn't activate the skills. If you eat Fresh foods you get a higher chance to activate the skills. For example you can activate Felyne Sharpshooter if your using Blademaster, and you will see Felyne Sharpshooter grayed out. But im 99.9% sure kitchen buffs do stack with Armor skills of the same buff.

You'd think I'd have gotten it to work at least once though. And it's not with just Sharpshooter where I can't get it to seem to activate with armor skills. Things like I've never gotten Firewalker to activate when I have Heat Cancel going, or Polisher to activate when I have Speed Sharpening. Again, I've not actually tested it to be sure I've not just been unlucky, but my inclination is to believe that they don't stack. The devation debuff with Temper just made me a bit annoyed so I wanted to ask earlier to see if others knew for sure. Though at this point it still sounds like nobody's really certain lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:24 pm

Felyne skills stack with armor skills.

Not to mention Felyne sharpshooter adds 10% damage to normal shots, not raw damage itself; obviously Felyne sharpshooter wouldn't stack to anything because there isn't any visual entity to be stacked with! It does, however, stack with normal up.

And please, do not use Hallowed Jhen HBG. That piece of crap has high recoil, and the damage is not on par with Goldbeard HBG. Most HBG's don't need recoil+1 to be good, and the only ones that are good that need recoil+1 is Crimson Peco HBG and Griffon Blazooka.

Also, get used to deviation. Most of the best HBG's have deviation. Getting Felyne temper will not be a big issue since most HBG are already at max deviation.
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:46 pm

Felyne firewalker doesn't let you get burned on the red section close to molten lava. This is not the same as heat-negation that you get from cold drinks or the heat cancel effect.

Felyne Polisher makes your sharpening decrease by 1 to 3 strokes. It normally takes 4 strokes for your weapon to be sharpened, and with the armor skill speed sharpening, it is reduced by 3, so you only need 1 stroke.

Felyne temper is the equivalent of having a megademondrug plus a little extra. This means that when you take a megademondrug during the quest, your attack doesn't go up (Tested and verified this in MHFU, not sure if changed for MH3U).

Felyne Sharpshooter gives you the Normal Shot up buff. Which is 10% damage increase to normal bowgun damage. The MHFU equivalent didn't stack with normal shot up, and this was verified by those that had hacked the game and placed a damage counter. This most likely means that MH3U also doesn't stack similar skills.

I may not be "certain" that I am right in my assumptions, but it is an educated guess based on what I have seen in prior versions of the game.

Again: Food buffs of equivalent armor skills will not stack with said armor skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Help a noob out? (Bowgun Edition)   Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:50 pm

It's like this game doesn't want you to have felyne skills.
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