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 I had this stupid idea to start using bows

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Lagiacrus the ultimate
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PostSubject: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:09 pm

And aside from Gigginox X and the G-rank Kelbi bow, I got nothing else. As such, I'd like some suggestions on other bows and armor sets.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:09 am

Get Athena A.S.S

1. Miralis/Alatreon Bow

Pierce up
Element Atk up
Focus
Weakness Exploit

Miralis bow (use Lv2 Pierce L5)
Alatreon bow (use lv3 Pierce L5)

Works great on Agna (both), Lagi, Jho, Plessy, Jhens.

-------

2. Arko Tri (Y)

Element Atk up/Thunder Atk+2
Tremor res
Evasion+1
Focus

Works great on Jho. Use Lv2 Spread L3 spam.

--------

3. Bamboo Kaguya

Awaken
Element Atk up/Water Atk+2
Focus
Weakness Exploit/Pellet up

Works great on Silver los. Use lv2 Spread L5 spam.

4. Brachy bow.

Challenger+2
Pellet up
Focus
Evasion+1

Good raw/slime bow, works on everything. Though it got very limited coating options. Use lv3 Spread L5.

---------

5. Rafalga Sandraider

Challenger+2
Normal/Rapid up
Weakness Exploit
Focus

Great raw bow. Amazing coating availability. Natural access to Lv4 Rapid L5 without Load up. Works great on monsters with hitzones with more than 45 shot weakness (i.e Zinogre head). Use lv4 Rapid L5.

If you can't download Athena A.S.S. you can post talis you have and I can help with armor set-ups. You basically want good Fastcharge talis with slots.


Last edited by Antari18 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:34 am

Thanks very much for the suggestions. I'll keep all of those in mind.
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E&Troy
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:08 pm

If you happen to have a talisman that does +9 Water Attack (It doesn't matter how it adds up, as long as it adds up to 9), then you can make a set for the Bamboo Kaguya that I personally really like to use against the S. Rathalos.

Spoiler:
 

^ That's the set. You also use the Mosgharl X shoes and the Gigginox Cap X instead and you'll be able to get those same skills. Although I'd personally use that setup since it uses the blademaster helm which helps out with the defense.

Only problem with that set when fighting the Silver Rathalos is that it has -26 Fire Resistance.

By the way. You can sleep the Silver Rathalos twice (Assuming you charge your shots to the level 4 charge) pretty easily since you have Status Attack +1 as well as the bow has a sleep coating boost.
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:06 am

Hmmm...I've been using the Grank Azure Rathalos set with HGE and Load up gemmed into it and any negative skills gemmed out. I have Critical Eye +3 on it too. As far as bows I have a wide selection of elemental bows to choose from.
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:06 am

Raviente-sized post incoming!

Armors

This is my elemental set:
Zinogre Helm Z
Narga Vest Z
Narga Guards Z
Narga Belt X
Narga Boots Z
Tali: Elemental+5
With proper gemming, this gives Element Up, Focus, Evade+1 and Peak Performance, which I think is a good mix of defense and offense.

And here's my raw one:
Narga Cap Z
Narga Vest Z
Agnaktor Guards X
Narga Belt Z
Narga Boots Z
Tali: Fastcharge+4
With proper gemming, this gives Normal S Up, Focus, Evade+1 and Challenger+2, which is sweet for things like multi-monster quests.


As for skills to focus on:
Focus: Obvious one here - faster charging means more damage. It's also essential for the S.Bari and Miralis bows, since they charge painfully slowly otherwise.
Peak Performance/Adrenaline: These skills are safer picks on a gunner than on a blademaster, since you get more time to react when a monster attacks you due to your range. I personally find Peak Performance better due to being less risky, but both are excellent picks.
Evade: I don't think I need to explain this one. Great synergy with PP/Adrenaline too.
Scatter S Up: All of the X Shot Up bonuses are good, but Scatter gets a special mention - While Pierce and Normal S up provide a 10% boost, Scatter S Up gives you a whopping 30% power increase. If you plan to use more than 2 Scatter bows, this skill is a must.
Stam. Recovery Up: Great defensive skill that lets you keep pumping out arrows when the monster is locked down. Combined with Focus, you'll still be able to regenerate stamina if you release arrows on the flash of the second charge.
Element Atk Up: Every single bow hits multiple times per shot - as such, Element Atk Up is very handy, especially with higher level shot types. Note that this skill works best with Scatter bows, since Scatter Lv5 fires a total of 5 arrows per shot. (Shoutout to Miralis Bow - It gets charge lv4 naturally, has an incredible fire element, and has Scatter Lv5!)

A word of warning: Capacity Up is a noobtrap. A lot of people think its the sharpness+1 of bows - it's not. For context, here's a list of how charging an arrow effects the damage multiplier on your bow's raw and elemental power.

Lv1 - 50% Raw, 40% Elemental.
Lv2 - 100% Raw, 75% Elemental.
Lv3 - 150% Raw, 100% Elemental.
Lv4 - 170% Raw, 112.5% Elemental.

As you can see, you don't get much bang for your buck for that 4th level of charge - Elemental Attack Up gives you a larger element multiplier (20%). Not only that, but since you'll be charging your shot for longer to reach that fourth level of charge, you'll be using more stamina and waiting longer between each shot, which lowers your damage output in the long run. Moreover, Capacity Up NEEDS to have Focus in the same set, otherwise you'll waste loads of time and stamina charging up each shot. Besides, most endgame bows have access to a Lv5 shot type on their third charge anyway, so you won't really need Cap. Up.


Weapons

Here's a list of some of the good endgame bows and their shot types. I'll list some pro's and con's of each, if there's competition. Word of warning: You cannot specialise in a specific shot type in this game - there just aren't enough options available. For example, all endgame fire bows are Scatter shot based, whereas the only viable ice bow is Rapid shot based. As such, I'd recommend an armor set that can either gem in any of the X Shot Up skills, or one that has other skills that benefit all the shot types.

Fire:
Selene Moonbroken: 312 Power, 240 Fire. No Slots. Focused Arc Shot. Lv3 Charge = Scatter 5. Lv 4 Charge = Rapid 5. Coatings: Poison, Para, Close Range.
The Ryssurection: 192 Power, 560 Fire. No Slots. Blast Arc Shot. Lv3 Charge = Rapid 1. Lv 4 Charge = Scatter 5 (Gets Lv4 without Cap.Up) Coatings: Power, Slime. Slime S Boost.

As far as fire goes, these are the 2 main contenders. The Ryssurection wins out imo, due to its incredible fire element and access to Power Coatings. The slime bonus is a nice addition as well, and well outclasses poison in terms of damage output. The only thing the Selene really has going for it is the Focused arc shot, since Blast can knock your teammates flying in multiplayer and isn't as good at stunning monsters.

Water:

Arken Victrine: 312 Power, 320 Water. No Slots. Blast Arc Shot. Lv3 Charge = Scatter 4. Lv4 Charge = Rapid 5.
Coatings: Close Range, Exhaust.

Aquasteed Harp: 300 Power, 200 Water. No Slots. Spread Arc Shot. Lv3 Charge = Rapid 2. Lv 4 Charge = Rapid 5.
Coatings: Power, Sleep, Close Range. 10% Affinity.

The Aquasteed Harp is situational and requires a specialised set. The lack of power coats hurts, but due to a lack of competition, the Arken is your best option. If you really want to use the Aquasteed, you'd have to have Capacity Up and Focus, as the Charge Lv3 is garbage. (This bow is actually designed for spamming lv1 shots, but that's a poor option due to the elemental multiplier and limited coatings you'll have).


Thunder:
Oppressor's Answer: 300 Power, 200 Thunder. 1 Slot. Spread Arc Shot. Lv3 Charge = Pierce 4. Lv 4 Charge = Rapid 4.
Coatings: Power, Para, Close Range, Exhaust.

Nether Emprestador: 312 Power, 270 Thunder. No slots. Spread Arc Shot. Lv3 Charge = Pierce 5. Lv 4 Charge = Rapid 2.
Coatings: Para, Close Range, Exhaust. 5% Affinity.

In terms of raw stats, the Emprestador wins out here. With a higher power lv3 charge and 5% affinity, this thing wrecks the larger thunder-weak monsters like the plesioth and deviljho. However, the coatings let it down immensely - lack of power coating really gimps its damage compared to the Oppressor's Answer, and Exhaust coats are pretty useless on it, since its a pierce bow (you won't be able to stun monsters due to only hitting the 'head' hitzone once, as opposed to 3-5 times with other shot types). This one really does come down to personal preference - do you want straight up power, or utility?

Ice:

Arko Tri: 228 Power, 300 Ice. 3 Slots. Focused Arc Shot. Lv3 Charge = Pierce 4. Lv4 Charge = Rapid 4.
Coatings: Poison, Para, Close Range, Exhaust. 5% Affinity. Para Coating Boost.

Amber Arc Valanga: 264 Power, 230 Ice. 1 Slot. Spread Arc shot. Lv3 Charge = Rapid 5. Lv 4 Charge = Scatter 4.
Coatings: Power, Sleep, Close Range. 30% Affinity.

There are few options for Ice bows, but most people tend to use the Amber Arc due to its superior power, affinity, and stronger Lv3 charge. That being said, the Arko Tri is anything but a poor bow - with a surprisingly high ice element and access to 3 slots and para coatings, this bow screams utility. The lack of power coatings hurts, but it certainly remains a viable option, especially if you want to bring some support elements to your team.


Dragon:

Stygian Patentia: 312 Power, 140 Dragon. No slots. Focused Arc shot. Lv3 Charge = Rapid 5. Lv4 Charge = Scatter 4.
Coatings: Power, Poison, Close Range.

Altheos Incanonis: 264 Power, 380 Dragon. No Slots. Blast Arc shot. Lv3 Charge: Pierce 5. Lv4 Charge = Rapid 3.
Coatings: Power, Slime. Slime Coating Boost.

Worldseer's Bounty: 300 Power, 280 Dragon. 1 Slot. Spread Arc shot. Lv3 Charge = Scatter 4. Lv4 Charge = Pierce 5.
Coatings: Poison, Para, Sleep, Clsoe Range. Defense+20.

This is where the choice gets difficult - all three of these are excellent bows that have their own pro's and con's. First off, the Stygian Patentia is incredibly consistent - With Rapid 5 and a Focused Arc, there's very little this bow can't do well. It's coatings are nothing to brag about though, and its element is rather poor, meaning you can't really capitalise on the monster's dragon weakness.
The Altheos hits elder dragons hard. Pierce 5 destroys monsters like the Ceadeus, Jhen, and Deviljho, and its huge dragon element means that each shot is going to do insane damage. The slime coating boost is a nice addition, but the poor base power means that this bow loses alot of power if it isn't hitting spots that have a real dragon vulnerability. Moreover, the Blast Arc isn't brilliant in mutiplayer, and its a very difficult weapon to get - the definition of endgame.
Finally, we have the Worldseer - With high raw and decent element, this is probably the most power-balanced of the three choices. The extra defense is a big help when fighting hard-hitting monsters like the Jhen and Alatreon, and the extra slot and access to Para and Sleep coatings make it a great choice for Alatreon runs. However, the Scatter 4 means that its damage output isn't as great as the other options, which is only further emphasised by its lack of power coatings. Again, a great bow, but with more focus on utility than damage.


I hope this helped give you some idea what you're looking for - sorry its such a massive post! I prefer to give people the materials they need to make their own decisions, rather than just telling them what I do ^^'


Last edited by X Kitsune X on Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:19 pm

@X Kitsune X wrote:
Lv1 - 50% Raw, 40% Elemental.
Lv2 - 100% Raw, 75% Elemental.
Lv3 - 150% Raw, 100% Elemental.
Lv4 - 150% Raw, 112.5% Elemental.

I've been told that after the second charge from a bow, the bow's elemental multiplier doesn't go up. Where do you suppose I might have heard that? And where did you get your information?

I now have no idea what the bow's charges do...

Also, could you show me what the different charges do for not only element, but status and slime (Assuming it's not the same as the elemental multiplier)? And last but not least, when you say 50% Raw, 40% Element. Are you saying that it's raw and elemental damage is being boosted by 0.5 (So basically being subtracted from the damage input)? Or is the raw damage basically being multiplied by 1.5 for the first charge, by 2 for the second charge, and by 2.5 for the 3rd and 4th charges?
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:01 pm

^ the elemental and damage always goes up for each charge... On most bows and for most Arrow typs (depending on the moster/bow) it's always better to get a full charge.

never really finished everything but some of the information and videos are useful and should provide most the information you need..

Fun with bows!


Last edited by dcj91x on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:02 pm

E&Troy wrote:
@X Kitsune X wrote:
Lv1 - 50% Raw, 40% Elemental.
Lv2 - 100% Raw, 75% Elemental.
Lv3 - 150% Raw, 100% Elemental.
Lv4 - 150% Raw, 112.5% Elemental.

I've been told that after the second charge from a bow, the bow's elemental multiplier doesn't go up. Where do you suppose I might have heard that? And where did you get your information?

I now have no idea what the bow's charges do...

Also, could you show me what the different charges do for not only element, but status and slime (Assuming it's not the same as the elemental multiplier)? And last but not least, when you say 50% Raw, 40% Element. Are you saying that it's raw and elemental damage is being boosted by 0.5 (So basically being subtracted from the damage input)? Or is the raw damage basically being multiplied by 1.5 for the first charge, by 2 for the second charge, and by 2.5 for the 3rd and 4th charges?

I don't know where you could have heard that - I got this data from the wiki, and it's been like that since as long as I can remember. Don't get too tied up in the specifics though - Just use charge lv3 as your main charge level, and 90% of the time, you'll be getting the best bang for your buck ;)

Regarding status, information is a little sketchy on it, but I'm positive that higher charge levels increase the status multiplier in a way similar to elements. Here are some numbers I've found, but I can't verify their integrity - they're from a Japanese MH3U wiki.

Stage 1 0.47 (47%)
Stage 2 1.0 (100%)
Stage 3 1.38 (138%)
Stage 4 1.75 (175%)

I would imagine it either works using these numbers, or uses the same multiplier as the element does. What I can say for sure though, is that status does apply much faster when you charge your shots. Likewise, there's debate about how slime works, but most people assume its a status. Eitherway, like other statuses, it does apply much faster when you charge your shots. Sorry I can't be more specific :c

About the multipliers on charge shots, I mean the base raw/element is being multiplied by that number. So a bow with 100 Power and 50 Fire element would deal 40 raw and 50 fire damage at charge lv1, 100 raw and 75 fire damage at charge lv2, and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:25 pm

@X Kitsune X wrote:
I don't know where you could have heard that - I got this data from the wiki, and it's been like that since as long as I can remember. Don't get too tied up in the specifics though - Just use charge lv3 as your main charge level, and 90% of the time, you'll be getting the best bang for your buck ;)

Regarding status, information is a little sketchy on it, but I'm positive that higher charge levels increase the status multiplier in a way similar to elements. Here are some numbers I've found, but I can't verify their integrity - they're from a Japanese MH3U wiki.

Stage 1  0.47 (47%)
Stage 2  1.0 (100%)
Stage 3  1.38 (138%)
Stage 4  1.75 (175%)

I would imagine it either works using these numbers, or uses the same multiplier as the element does. What I can say for sure though, is that status does apply much faster when you charge your shots. Likewise, there's debate about how slime works, but most people assume its a status. Eitherway, like other statuses, it does apply much faster when you charge your shots. Sorry I can't be more specific :c

About the multipliers on charge shots, I mean the base raw/element is being multiplied by that number. So a bow with 100 Power and 50 Fire element would deal 40 raw and 50 fire damage at charge lv1, 100 raw and 75 fire damage at charge lv2, and so on.

Okay, thanks. However, I have another question.

Does each arrow you shoot inflict a certain amount of status/element regardless of how they're shot? Or do the different shot types (Spread, Rapid and Pierce) effect how much each arrow inflicts?

The reason I want to know is if doing a level 2 charge with the Bamboo Kaguya would actually inflict more Status than the level 3 charge. If the different types of shots (Rapid, Spread and Pierce) didn't effect how much each arrow inflicted, then I'd assume that a level 2 charge would be better.

My reasoning is, since the level 2 charge from the Bamboo Kaguya shoots five arrows, each with a 100% multiplier (This is going by the numbers you just posted) status infliction adding up to 500% if all the arrows hit. Whereas the level 3 charge shoots 2 arrows, with a 138% multiplier. That would add up to 276%, which isn't nearly as much. That is all assuming each arrow inflicts a certain amount of status, regardless of if it's being shot by a rapid arrow or a spread arrow (Or a pierce arrow).

That's why I'm wondering if it would actually be better to use a level two charge. Please correct me on anything I did wrong by the way. I'm just guessing on some things.
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:53 am

From what I understand, every arrow inflicts a percentage of the total value - for example, with Scatter 5, each arrow would inflict 20% of the total status value, since you're firing 5 arrows. As for the shot types themselves, I'm not entirely sure - I usually use the same amount of arrows to inflict status on a monster, regardless of shot type.

I'd imagine charge lv2 would be best on the Kaguya, but I've never used one myself. I'd recommend running a few tests to make sure - just pick a monster weak to para, and lock it with traps.
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:32 pm

I just did a few small tests on the Duramboros using the Bamboo Kaguya. I was using sleep coatings, which the Bamboo Kaguya enhances. I was using a set with Awaken, Water Attack +1, Focus, Load Up, and Status Attack +1.

I started out by using level 3 charge arrows (Which is a Rapid 2 level, which shoots two arrows). All of my arrows hit the monster (It was in a pitfall trap) and I slept it in just four level 3 charges. Which was a total of 8 arrows as well.

Then I did the exact same quest, did everything the exact same, but used level 2 charges instead of level 3. This time I slept it in 3 level 2 charges. Which was less than the first.

And then last, I did everything again, except I used level 4 charges instead of level 3. Once again I slept the Duramboros in 3 shots instead of 4. The level 4 charges on the Bamboo Kaguya are Rapid 4, which shoot four arrows instead of two.

Out of everything that happened, I felt like the more arrows the charge shoots, the more likely it is to status the monster. Like in that case, the level 2 charge which shot a Spread lvl 5 (Which shot 5 arrows) slept the monster faster than the level 3 charge which shot a Rapid lvl 2 (Which shot two arrows).
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:03 am

E&Troy wrote:
I just did a few small tests on the Duramboros using the Bamboo Kaguya. I was using sleep coatings, which the Bamboo Kaguya enhances. I was using a set with Awaken, Water Attack +1, Focus, Load Up, and Status Attack +1.

I started out by using level 3 charge arrows (Which is a Rapid 2 level, which shoots two arrows). All of my arrows hit the monster (It was in a pitfall trap) and I slept it in just four level 3 charges. Which was a total of 8 arrows as well.

Then I did the exact same quest, did everything the exact same, but used level 2 charges instead of level 3. This time I slept it in 3 level 2 charges. Which was less than the first.

And then last, I did everything again, except I used level 4 charges instead of level 3. Once again I slept the Duramboros in 3 shots instead of 4. The level 4 charges on the Bamboo Kaguya are Rapid 4, which shoot four arrows instead of two.

Out of everything that happened, I felt like the more arrows the charge shoots, the more likely it is to status the monster. Like in that case, the level 2 charge which shot a Spread lvl 5 (Which shot 5 arrows) slept the monster faster than the level 3 charge which shot a Rapid lvl 2 (Which shot two arrows).

Well, how about that! I'll eat my words on that one - thanks for running the tests, I'm glad I managed to learn something new that will really help with statusing in the future ^^
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PostSubject: Re: I had this stupid idea to start using bows   Today at 10:30 pm

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