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 Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?

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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:27 pm

So, I was dinking around, and I'm trying to understand the mechanics of Dragon Shot

it says five hits(after first hit the ammo falls), 64 dragon damage. Is that EACH? so....
.85% modified for rapid fire

Situation one: trapped monster Headshots

Offline rathian/los to the face, if you say, paralyze it and then shoot it in the face:

64 * .35 * .85 = 19 (22 with ele atk up)

if dragon fire 3 with normal rapid fire and 4 with bonus shot rapid fire?

so, if it falls just right you'll hit the rathian's head 20 times 22, for 440 damage, from a single volley fired? It just doesn't sound right.(online high rank you're down to 320/volley)

It should also devastate a trapped uragaan's face.

Siutation 2: Ceadeus

Likewise, let's say you do it to Ceadeus.

just aim at the back so the ammo falls through the beast,

64 * .85 *.2 * 1.2 = 13. so. 13 * 20 = 260 per volley. Given that you can start with 20 dragon shot and make 10 more, thats 7800 damage so half dead ceadeus. Sounds too good to be true.

Situation 3: Jhen

And then on Jhen, after the five minute mark when he parks on the side of the ship, you can spam dragon shot to the face, at it should fall into the inside of the mouth, right?

so, you'll have some of the hits using the mouth ext modifier of only .15
64 * .15*.85*.75*1.2 = 7 * 20 = 140 dmg minimum per volley, more if part of the volley gets the interior mouth: .25 and chin? .22

This time unlike the Ceadeus you won't be able to fire off all 30 volleys, but still!!

I can't help but think I made a math/game mechanics error somewhere.
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:49 pm

Portable 3rd is the only time rapid fire dragon shots are good.
In tri it blows
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Kholdstare
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:21 pm

I was able to headlock ceadeus with the pierce set used against jho. /yes/

[on topic] The dragon shots only seem to work well on monsters that are weak to dragon like los+ian, not uragaan. :/
Even then you need bonus shot... does element attack up affect dragon s?
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Win32error
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:33 pm

@Kholdstare wrote:
I was able to headlock ceadeus with the pierce set used against jho. /yes/

[on topic] The dragon shots only seem to work well on monsters that are weak to dragon like los+ian, not uragaan. :/
Even then you need bonus shot... does element attack up affect dragon s?

Gaan's head was mentioned, which has a .3 weakness to dragon. What's more, Cut and impact have .1/.2 respectively. Raw damage won't do very much, making dragon a pretty good alternative. Rapid water S would still do quite a bit better in full damage though, just not on the chin.
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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:45 pm

@Win32error wrote:
Rapid water S would still do quite a bit better in full damage though, just not on the chin.

Um... even with the most whammy jammy gun gun you can make, an optimal volley of dragon S is going to massively outdamage an optimal volley of water S.

Water S has more shots, but for a quick burst of damage dragon gonna win, because dragon shot's mechanism is wildly different.

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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:14 pm

@Ugthorf wrote:
@Win32error wrote:
Rapid water S would still do quite a bit better in full damage though, just not on the chin.

Um... even with the most whammy jammy gun gun you can make, an optimal volley of dragon S is going to massively outdamage an optimal volley of water S.

Water S has more shots, but for a quick burst of damage dragon gonna win, because dragon shot's mechanism is wildly different.

Dragon shot mechanism is the same just that it has a fixed Element power value ..and maximum recoil
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:20 pm

@Ugthorf wrote:
@Win32error wrote:
Rapid water S would still do quite a bit better in full damage though, just not on the chin.

Um... even with the most whammy jammy gun gun you can make, an optimal volley of dragon S is going to massively outdamage an optimal volley of water S.

Water S has more shots, but for a quick burst of damage dragon gonna win, because dragon shot's mechanism is wildly different.


Not on gaan in general.... With Dragon S you'll HAVE to hit the head, or you're doing scrat damage. With gaan moving, that's not gonna be terribly efficient. You might be able to break the chin real fast when he's immobilized, but you'll be doing more damage with water.
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Lucas
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:27 pm

With bonus shot you fire 3 dragon shots
So it's just 15 hits, not 20
And the classmodifier is missing
The formula should go like this .... I think
Dragon Element * Rapid fire multiplier * Ele hitzone value / 1.2(Bowgun classmodifier) * def (1.0)
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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:52 pm



Quote :
With bonus shot you fire 3 dragon shots
So it's just 15 hits, not 20
And the classmodifier is missing
The formula should go like this .... I think
Dragon Element * Rapid fire multiplier * Ele hitzone value / 1.2(Bowgun classmodifier) * def (1.0)

Ah, the bonus shot was the one thing I couldn't find. That sucks.

However, VC said dragon ignores class... sooo... I guess that's 5850 damage it'll do to Ceadeus. Unless VC is wrong and dragon does take class into account??
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:05 pm

@Ugthorf wrote:
However, VC said dragon ignores class... sooo... I guess that's 5850 damage it'll do to Ceadeus. Unless VC is wrong and dragon does take class into account??
wtf? Hell no. The class multiplier only exists to make your attack look pretty. Now I might not be too reliable with this since I'm not sure how the element ammo works(I haven't paid much attention to that), but so far, if your using the displayed attack, you have to divide by class multiplier.

For a gun with 360 attack, there is no 360 in memory. Instead, there's a 300 somewhere and that gets read to calculate damage. Or maybe not even that. Probably just the real raw(displayed/class) for each part. The multiplier is only used to display your attack. So something always has to get divided by class multiplier during our calculations. Dragon probably doesn't take raw into account, so there would be the reason for no class multiplier.

EDIT:
====

Well now that I took a quick look at it, I realize there's no element attack like for melee. it is definitely interesting. I won't look into it much though. I think class multiplier is ridiculous and shouldn't exist. Hence my "Show Real Raw/Element" codes. There has to be a reason for element to be divided by a raw multiplier. I say someone got wrong numbers. >.>

If I look into it more than I want atm, I'll make sure to find the list/table/whatever the game uses to define ammo. And then we can have a more accurate table for ammo power with no raw multipliers being used to find element damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:28 pm

@Ugthorf wrote:
So, I was dinking around, and I'm trying to understand the mechanics of Dragon Shot

it says five hits(after first hit the ammo falls), 64 dragon damage. Is that EACH? so....
.85% modified for rapid fire

etc etc snipping long post

I can't help but think I made a math/game mechanics error somewhere.

There are a few inaccuracies. RF dragon is 2 shots, 3 with bonus shot. And ele atk up doesn't benefit it. So a perfect shot against uragaan's head will do 240 damage.

That's quite a bit. But that same shot is quite unlikely to land all 3 hits, and takes 3.5 seconds to fire. Compare it to pierce on uragaan's stomach: a 360 attack power gun will do 93 damage with a pierce 1 shot. In the time it takes you to shoot a RF dragon, you could have done 325 damage with pierce, or even about 400 damage stabbing it with gleam
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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone tried Rapid Fire Dragon shot?   Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:34 pm

@dainbramage wrote:
And ele atk up doesn't benefit it.

ouch.
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