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 Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?

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Blair H
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PostSubject: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:56 am

Hey, I just got back into MH Tri and I've been playing offline quite a bit.
I'm using alot of different weapons but I want to upgrade my GS.
I have 3 choices, the Golem Blade, Red Wing and the Wyvern Jawblade.
I already traded for 50 Wyvern Claws so I could get the Wyvern Jawblade easier, I was going to get it because of its higher raw damage but now I'm not sure if I should. Which one should I choose? I honestly have no idea.
(I DO have online access so trading for items isn't a problem.)

Also, I'm new on here, I just made my account last night so I'm not sure if I have posted this in the right place and sorry if I haven't!
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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:10 am

You will want both the red wing ang the golem blade.

http://divinewh.im/w/gs/

the golem blade willl upgrade to siegelinde, and the red wing will upgrade to firesword. firesword will be godsend vs nox&bari. siegelinde readily upgrades to a sword which will last you until jho gs.

the jawblade path is fraught with rare break-only rewards from diablos. not worth the frustration, you'll have jho gs before you can get two stouts for final hornsword.
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:12 am

First off let me start by saying, I love the way you typed that post.

now personally I would choose Red wing, it makes a ton of monsters alot easier due to its element being fire
(G.Jaggi, G.Baggi, Barioth, Lagiacrus, Barroth, Gobul, R.Ludroth,Gigginox)
the only issue is getting its materials, doesn't it require los materials? I'm not sure what Tier quests you're on but if los is available, you should go for Red Wing IMO.
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Blair H
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:36 am

@Kholdstare wrote:
First off let me start by saying, I love the way you typed that post.

now personally I would choose Red wing, it makes a ton of monsters alot easier due to its element being fire
(G.Jaggi, G.Baggi, Barioth, Lagiacrus, Barroth, Gobul, R.Ludroth,Gigginox)
the only issue is getting its materials, doesn't it require los materials? I'm not sure what Tier quests you're on but if los is available, you should go for Red Wing IMO.

I'm on low tier quests right now, But I will be sure to get the Red Wing (I might get the Golem Blade aswell.) I knew alot of monsters were weak to fire as I check the wiki before I fight monsters but I had no idea there were so many weak to fire!
The weapon would be great! Looks like it'd speed up alot of quests/grinding! Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:34 pm

People here are telling you to go with red wing.... wat.

You want a powerful gs, not one with element.



The higher your raw damage output, the better the great sword.

Wyvern Jaw Blade gives a good 720 coupled with a tremendous amount of sharpness, to top it all off, it's crazy easy to make.

Let's take a fire weak monster into question:

Barroth - no mud.
Attack= Unsheathe

Wyvern jaw damage: 30 (On tail)
Red wing damage: 31 (On tail)

Red wing's element brings up 1 extra point of damage... which isn't all that much better.
You could be using a blade that slightly less efficient on fire weak monsters and do good on monsters that are resistant to fire.

However, when you charge attack, this is the outcome:

Wyvern Jaw damage: 60 (Level 2 charge on tail)
Red wing damage: 57 (level 2 charge on tail)

When you charge, Jaw simply does more.
The only way red wing will do better for you, is if you simply swing around.... Which is pretty unhealthy for a GS since you could be doing charge attacks that murder monsters.

now let's go with level 3 charges on the tail:
Jaw: 90
Wing: 83

On every other body part, wyvern jaw does more with a level 3 charge, even the head which is VERY weak to fire.
Now take note that this is barroth that is DRY.
He's not dry forever, and he can get his mud back on.

Even with a lvl 2 charge, jaw blade does more damage on most parts of barroth's body (Except for the face).

Now on lagiacrus....
The back is the most weak the fire, so red wing does better for up to a lvl2 charge.

Bring up lvl 3 charges, and you have wyvern jaw blade tearing up monsters.
Hell, even lvl 2 charges bring up more damage than red wing....
Jaw blade can even match up (not really better than it though) to the red wing's upgrade.

However, redwing's upgrade (flamesword) is only going to be better on fire weak monsters....
I'd go with fantastic overall monster damage myself, but hey... It's your choice.
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Blair H
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:37 pm

@It's meh wrote:
People here are telling you to go with red wing.... wat.

You want a powerful gs, not one with element.



The higher your raw damage output, the better the great sword.

Wyvern Jaw Blade gives a good 720 coupled with a tremendous amount of sharpness, to top it all off, it's crazy easy to make.

Let's take a fire weak monster into question:

Barroth - no mud.
Attack= Unsheathe

Wyvern jaw damage: 30 (On tail)
Red wing damage: 31 (On tail)

Red wing's element brings up 1 extra point of damage... which isn't all that much better.
You could be using a blade that slightly less efficient on fire weak monsters and do good on monsters that are resistant to fire.

However, when you charge attack, this is the outcome:

Wyvern Jaw damage: 60 (Level 2 charge on tail)
Red wing damage: 57 (level 2 charge on tail)

When you charge, Jaw simply does more.
The only way red wing will do better for you, is if you simply swing around.... Which is pretty unhealthy for a GS since you could be doing charge attacks that murder monsters.

now let's go with level 3 charges on the tail:
Jaw: 90
Wing: 83

On every other body part, wyvern jaw does more with a level 3 charge, even the head which is VERY weak to fire.
Now take note that this is barroth that is DRY.
He's not dry forever, and he can get his mud back on.

Even with a lvl 2 charge, jaw blade does more damage on most parts of barroth's body (Except for the face).

Now on lagiacrus....
The back is the most weak the fire, so red wing does better for up to a lvl2 charge.

Bring up lvl 3 charges, and you have wyvern jaw blade tearing up monsters.
Hell, even lvl 2 charges bring up more damage than red wing....
Jaw blade can even match up (not really better than it though) to the red wing's upgrade.

However, redwing's upgrade (flamesword) is only going to be better on fire weak monsters....
I'd go with fantastic overall monster damage myself, but hey... It's your choice.
Wow. How do you know all this stuff! I was thinking about making golem + red wing, but after reading this I might make Golem + Wyvern Jawblade, or just the Wyvern Jawblade! Is the Golem Blade worth it? Thanks!!
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:48 pm

I'd say golem blade is worth it.
You can easily upgrade it into sieglinde (which is on equal attack power as wyvern jawblade, but with less sharpness)
And you can quickly upgrade that when in highrank since rathian is available from the start of high rank.

And if you also have jaw blade, it can upgrade into diablos Hornsword (although it's not particularly easy to make, it's a good GS to have with critical draw)


For quick advancement, you can go with the jawblade right now, and then upgrade sieglinde later on.

or, as others have pointed out, you could go with red wing if you aren't all that comfortable with charge swinging a Great Sword.


I made a slight error.
Valkyrie blade is actually more simple to make after golem blade.
The upgrade to sieglinde takes rare scarabs which are found in volcanic quests...
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:57 pm

@It's meh wrote:
People here are telling you to go with red wing.... wat.
....
When you charge, Jaw simply does more.

That right there is the crux. Not everyone can use the supercharge well. I would also point out that some monsters--Brutes, Bari, Nox--are rather difficult and annoying to use supercharge on. Yes with practice supercharging becomes easier, but nobody starts there. Like most things it's hairsplitting. Use what you can get. Fight the way that's good for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:24 pm

The GS with the fire element may be weaker, but I read somewhere that it will cause more staggers, which will get more attacks in.
I'm no expert on GS so I may be wrong, correct em if I am.
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MasterOnion
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:42 pm

@Axel3 wrote:
The GS with the fire element may be weaker, but I read somewhere that it will cause more staggers, which will get more attacks in.
I'm no expert on GS so I may be wrong, correct em if I am.

If it is weaker it will not get more staggers, staggers happen when you do enough damage to a specific part of the monster. if you go on the divine whim damage area it will show you the stagger limits of each part of a monster, and if the damage you do goes over that limit then the monster will stagger.
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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:45 pm

@Axel3 wrote:
The GS with the fire element may be weaker, but I read somewhere that it will cause more staggers, which will get more attacks in.
I'm no expert on GS so I may be wrong, correct em if I am.

the sword which does more damage overall to a give monster will cause more staggers. in the case of barioth, it's the firesword.

The red wing on it's own is a joke, only thing good about it is that you can quickly make it into the firesword by killing 'los a few more times.

jawblade can be made before you get to volcano, and blows a rathian plate, and mats for 50 lifepowders,

--OR--

you can save your plate, kill the lagiacrus with some other blade, and use your ian plate to make Siegelinde, which has a much more friendly upgrade path.

After you've killed rathian, you can immediately kill lagi, so, theoretically jawblade becomes obsolete after just 1 boss hunt & little bug catching.
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:56 pm

So..Is the Golem Blade a good choice for the easy path and strong upgrades?


Last edited by Blair H on Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:22 pm

@It's meh wrote:
I'd say golem blade is worth it.
You can easily upgrade it into sieglinde (which is on equal attack power as wyvern jawblade, but with less sharpness)
And you can quickly upgrade that when in highrank since rathian is available from the start of high rank.

And if you also have jaw blade, it can upgrade into diablos Hornsword (although it's not particularly easy to make, it's a good GS to have with critical draw)


For quick advancement, you can go with the jawblade right now, and then upgrade sieglinde later on.

or, as others have pointed out, you could go with red wing if you aren't all that comfortable with charge swinging a Great Sword.


I made a slight error.
Valkyrie blade is actually more simple to make after golem blade.
The upgrade to sieglinde takes rare scarabs which are found in volcanic quests...

Judging on what I've read I've decided I'm going to create the Golem Blade.
Which I could upgrade into Siegelinde/Sigemund. My last question (hopefully), Which is the better choice Siegelinde/Siegemund? (Sorry if the spelling is incorrect, I guessed it.) Sorry, I just chose to ask you because you seem to be the most experienced and also know what you are talking about! (: Thanks!
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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:44 pm

Well, siegmund & high siegmund has nice affinity.

if you are using crit draw, you do not need affinity, all draw attacks will be critical automatically.

additionally, the seiglinde uggrades can be done earlier relative to seigmund, and the high sieglinde has two slots instead of one.

On a set without dat crit draw, High Siegmund is going to outperform sieglinde by 7.5% on average (30% * .25 damage boost per crit hit). (The poison doesn't really make a big difference.)

Is it worth it? Well, I never made Siegmund myself :P The un-upgraded version is great when you can get it, but I looked at the future path and decided not to bother.

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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:56 pm

Spoiler:
 
For me, I'd go with sieglinde.
For one, it's easier to upgrade and is actually a very nice sword to have.

Sigemund is better than sieglinde, but it takes materials from los and it's upgrades also take quite a while to get.



For easy production: Sieglinde
For more power in more time: Siegmund.

Edit: As stated above me, siegmund has affinity which can boost your strength (however, critical draw can guarantee a draw swing with boosted power)
The two swords (upgraded) are equal in power numerically, but one has affinity that can boost an attacks power.

In low rank, siegmund has more power in general.
It's numerical is higher, naturally.
However, upgraded they are the same strength. (Their high rank upgrades).
But High siegmund has more power (by chance) with affinity.


Last edited by It's meh on Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blair H
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:06 pm

@It's meh wrote:
Spoiler:
 
For me, I'd go with sieglinde.
For one, it's easier to upgrade and is actually a very nice sword to have.

Sigemund is better than sieglinde, but it takes materials from los and it's upgrades also take quite a while to get.



For easy production: Sieglinde
For more power in more time: Siegmund.
Thank you, Is the damage difference between Siegelinde and Siegemund drastic?
If the difference is large enough I will put the effort in to create Siegemund, If it's only slightly better I will opt for Siegelinde.
PS. Thanks so much for your really detailed answers! You have really helped me out so far with all the questions I've asked! Sorry for asking so many though!
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Ugthorf
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:11 pm

@Blair H wrote:

Thank you, Is the damage difference between Siegelinde and Siegemund drastic?
If the difference is large enough I will put the effort in to create Siegemund, If it's only slightly better I will opt for Siegelinde.
PS. Thanks so much for your really detailed answers! You have really helped me out so far with all the questions I've asked! Sorry for asking so many though!

with crit draw, difference is only 6.6%

without crit draw it's about ~10% better. 15% crit = 3.75% more damage(on average)
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:14 pm

Spoiler:
 
For it to be drastic, you'd have to count affinity.
With an affinity strike, siegmund will deal quite a bit more damage compared to sieglinde.
Naturally, they aren't too far apart in power, and unless you get affinity hits, they are pretty close in strength.
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:16 pm

@It's meh wrote:
Spoiler:
 
For it to be drastic, you'd have to count affinity.
With an affinity strike, siegmund will deal quite a bit more damage compared to sieglinde.
Naturally, they aren't too far apart in power, and unless you get affinity hits, they are pretty close in strength.
Oh, So Siegemund isn't really worth all the hastle?
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:25 pm

@Blair H wrote:
@It's meh wrote:
Spoiler:
 
For it to be drastic, you'd have to count affinity.
With an affinity strike, siegmund will deal quite a bit more damage compared to sieglinde.
Naturally, they aren't too far apart in power, and unless you get affinity hits, they are pretty close in strength.
Oh, So Siegemund isn't really worth all the hastle?
For the upgrades and in the long run.
No it isn't.

It would be worth the hassle if it were much more powerful compared to sieglinde, but since their differences "can" be minor, it's just not worth the hassle.
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:27 pm

@It's meh wrote:
@Blair H wrote:
@It's meh wrote:
Spoiler:
 
For it to be drastic, you'd have to count affinity.
With an affinity strike, siegmund will deal quite a bit more damage compared to sieglinde.
Naturally, they aren't too far apart in power, and unless you get affinity hits, they are pretty close in strength.
Oh, So Siegemund isn't really worth all the hastle?
For the upgrades and in the long run.
No it isn't.

It would be worth the hassle if it were much more powerful compared to sieglinde, but since their differences "can" be minor, it's just not worth the hassle.
Alrighty then! Sorry for taking up so much of your time with all these questions!
Having read over all the replies and suggestions, I'm going to go along with what you are saying as I agree also. I'm going to upgrade my GS to Siegelinde! (:
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:52 pm

Quote :
Oh, So Siegemund isn't really worth all the hastle?

let's look at your post-seigemund targets:

barioth -- agile bastard, you won't get many L3's off. Rathlos Firesword is your best bet.

agnaktor -- if you can get those L3's off, siegemund will be the best-- 96(not crit) to the head vs 90 for next best. If you're struggling, not getting your l3's off, and his lava is hardening too often, cataclysm blade might be better to take advantage of his water weakness.

uragaan-- this guy is weak to poison, siegelinde will destroy him. If you poison him twice you erase seigmund's normal 10% advantage.

ceadeus-- ancient blade outperforms siegmund on some hitzones, like stomach, because ceadeus is weak to dragon there.
but on the large beard seigmund does 129 with a 15% chance of dat 162 crit, ancient blade will do 127. Siegelinde lags behind with 121.

After repelling ceadeus once you can use the guaranteed luminous organ you get to forge lagia lightning R, pair it with crit draw and you've got you're best-pre-high rank option.


Last edited by Ugthorf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:56 pm

@Ugthorf wrote:
Quote :
Oh, So Siegemund isn't really worth all the hastle?

let's look at your post-seigemund targets:

barioth -- agile bastard, you won't get many L3's off. Rathlos Firesword is your best bet.

agnaktor -- if you can get those L3's off, siegemund will be the best-- 96(not crit) to the head vs 90 for next best. If you're struggling, not getting your l3's off, and his lava is hardening too often, cataclysm blade might be better to take advantage of his water weakness.

uragaan-- this guy is weak to poison, siegelinde will destroy him. If you poison him twice you erase seigmund's normal 10% advantage.

ceadeus-- ancient blade outperforms siegmund on some hitzones, like stomach, because ceadeus is weak to dragon.
but on the beard seigmund does 129 with a 15% chance of dat 162 crit, ancient blade will do 127. Siegelinde lags behind with 121.
Well then that settles it, Siegelinde it is!
PS: I actually found Barroth really easy, I've beat him using Hammer,SnS and Lance. Just finished my Barroth Gunner set there! Thanks for the advice there, It sealed the deal for me to get Siegelinde! (I actually beat Barroth fastest with the SnS just under 9 minutes!) I haven't really used my current GS because it seems so rubbish compared to my other weapons. After upgrading it though I will be using it frequently/ as a primary!
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:30 pm

OK. Easy answer without all the details. Go the Sieglinde path and upgrade it as soon as possible to High Sieglinde (P). Use High Sieglinde (P) until you can make Berserker Sword from Deviljho. Upgrade that as soon as possible and never use another GS after Anguish(P). Anguish (P) is the best overall GS you can own.

Easy Peasy route for GS. Feel free to make other GSs if you want, but this is the staple path for a GS user. Why? Because it allows you to have the best overall GSs at the earliest possible times without using alot of needless materials to make specialty GSs that become obsolete once you make Anguish(P).

So here it is summed up:

Sieglinde --> High Sieglinde (P)
then
Berserker Sword --> Anguish (P)
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PostSubject: Re: Golem Blade, Red Wing or Wyvern Jawblade?   Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:22 pm

Yes jho GS is the best endgame weapon overall.
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