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 Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?

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Dark Soul Slayer
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PostSubject: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:04 am

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I am asking this because i have heard that in general the axe mode does significantly more damage since the sword mode is not a power phial....
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It's meh
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:12 am

tbh, I don't know if the damage is "Significantly" more in axe mode, compared to sword mode.... But honestly, I don't find sword mode all that useful, unless you wanna not bounce or if you have power- Er, I mean DEATH mode on.


So if you wanna use B.Harvest, I'd say to use it in axe mode.
stay away from that figure 8 slash, unless you wanna look cool.


The big bonus for using axe mode, is that you can keep attacking without losing your bar like how the sword does it.
Plus, you have a lot of maneuverability and reach in axe mode too.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:53 am

Both the sword mode and axe mode do great damage. People say Harvest has the best axe because it doesnt have a powerphial, but that doesn't mean its sword mode is bad. In fact it would be in the Top 3 of S.Axe sword modes, and the only one of the three that has a elemental phial.

The thing about SA is its versatility. You should switch in and out of each modes depending on situations etc. If a monster is downed, I would throttle it with Sword Mode and end with burst.

While on the move waiting for openings, I'd be in Axe mode getting some extra snipe hits with the upswing.

It really depends on how comfortable in which mode you're in but do note that Sword Mode of Black Harvest is just as devastating as its axe mode.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:10 am

@Chips wrote:
Both the sword mode and axe mode do great damage. People say Harvest has the best axe because it doesnt have a powerphial, but that doesn't mean its sword mode is bad. In fact it would be in the Top 3 of S.Axe sword modes, and the only one of the three that has a elemental phial.

The thing about SA is its versatility. You should switch in and out of each modes depending on situations etc. If a monster is downed, I would throttle it with Sword Mode and end with burst.

While on the move waiting for openings, I'd be in Axe mode getting some extra snipe hits with the upswing.

It really depends on how comfortable in which mode you're in but do note that Sword Mode of Black Harvest is just as devastating as its axe mode.

Thanks for the response. Just wondering, if i was aiming to be dealing the most damage regardless of variables and comfort etc and was able to just constantly combo wouldn't it be more damaging to use axe mode.. its just that i heard that black harvest has the best axe mode in the game and out damages the sword mode part. Although it would be no where near as fun, i heard that the over swing, upswing, side slash combo out damages everything the sword mode can dish out. Im just wondering this for a speed run or solo using B Harvest.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:32 am

@Dark Soul Slayer wrote:

Thanks for the response. Just wondering, if i was aiming to be dealing the most damage regardless of variables and comfort etc and was able to just constantly combo wouldn't it be more damaging to use axe mode.. its just that i heard that black harvest has the best axe mode in the game and out damages the sword mode part. Although it would be no where near as fun, i heard that the over swing, upswing, side slash combo out damages everything the sword mode can dish out. Im just wondering this for a speed run or solo using B Harvest.
Well...
An overhead for the axe can do 54% damage while it takes two cuts from the sword to even go over that amount.
Plus, an axe can keep attacking and attacking non-stop since it doesn't need to worry about the energy bar depleting.

Well, if you want some more info.... I guess you can use this if it's not too incorrect or anything.

I've already set it to the weapon and rathalos online HR.
Axe mode
Sword mode
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Kanade
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:10 am

individual attacks from the axe will always out damage individual attacks from sword cept for the burst finisher which does the most damage of all, but sword mode the swings are more constant... if you're constantly able to combo a monster sword mode is ideal

there's a ton of variables that come into play... how high is the hit zone you're trying to hit? how mobile is the monster? etc etc, it gets even more messy in team play which I'll assume you'll be doing most of
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:46 am

@It's meh wrote:
@Dark Soul Slayer wrote:

Thanks for the response. Just wondering, if i was aiming to be dealing the most damage regardless of variables and comfort etc and was able to just constantly combo wouldn't it be more damaging to use axe mode.. its just that i heard that black harvest has the best axe mode in the game and out damages the sword mode part. Although it would be no where near as fun, i heard that the over swing, upswing, side slash combo out damages everything the sword mode can dish out. Im just wondering this for a speed run or solo using B Harvest.
Well...
An overhead for the axe can do 54% damage while it takes two cuts from the sword to even go over that amount.
Plus, an axe can keep attacking and attacking non-stop since it doesn't need to worry about the energy bar depleting.

Well, if you want some more info.... I guess you can use this if it's not too incorrect or anything.

I've already set it to the weapon and rathalos online HR.
Axe mode
Sword mode

Thanks for the links.

"An overhead for the axe can do 54% damage while it takes two cuts from the sword to even go over that amount.
Plus, an axe can keep attacking and attacking non-stop since it doesn't need to worry about the energy bar depleting."
^That is why i think axe mode is more powerful, thanks for that info.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:53 am

@Kanade wrote:
individual attacks from the axe will always out damage individual attacks from sword cept for the burst finisher which does the most damage of all, but sword mode the swings are more constant... if you're constantly able to combo a monster sword mode is ideal

there's a ton of variables that come into play... how high is the hit zone you're trying to hit? how mobile is the monster? etc etc, it gets even more messy in team play which I'll assume you'll be doing most of

You have a solid point about the variables and team play (upswinging with axe mode :p) but im quite sure that if you're constantly able to combo a monster sword mode is NOT ideal. This is going by the link and info from "Its meh". Im also fairly sure that by the time you can land a discharge combo and finish you will have done more damage with an endless b harvest axe combo.

Based on hitting a los' head with a discharge combo + discharge finish you would be doing roughly 300 damage, while in this time you could do roughly 2 full combos of the axe mode and deal approx. 400 damage. This is assuming both are on purple sharpness and is hr los. Check out the links that "Its meh" provided to see what im saying...
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:58 am

I know the damage formulas, the sword mode swings are faster and can out damage a axe combos if you're consistant, also sword mode vertical combos into a discharged burst will out damage any combo an axe can on an immobile monster

the damage formula only show individual hits damage and not frequency of attacks or precision of the attacks...
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:46 am

@Kanade wrote:
I know the damage formulas, the sword mode swings are faster and can out damage a axe combos if you're consistant, also sword mode vertical combos into a discharged burst will out damage any combo an axe can on an immobile monster

the damage formula only show individual hits damage and not frequency of attacks or precision of the attacks...

"the sword mode swings are faster and can out damage a axe combos if you're consistent" Can you prove this, according to the links this wrong. YOu may be generally right but not with this specific case due to the b harvest not having a power phial and the purple sharpness.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:59 am

go swing the vertical combo of a sword and count your hits then swing the vertical axe combo in the same amount of time and count your hits

the comparison is just 1 attack from the sword mode and 1 attack from the axe mode, if you use these exclusively then axe mode is clearly better, that's why i mention variables to do the axe combo you reach the overhead again you have to do two more attacks, side swipe and forward poke thats the fastest way to chain overheads in axe, in sword mode you can just spam overhead, rising slash, overhead over and over and the swings of that combo will be faster than the axe combo

you say it out damages because of lack of power phial, go to the link again and put an power phial swaxe and do the same calculations the axe mode will still out damage the sword mode in pure numbers, if you want to use pure numbers to determine which is better, i won't argue with you that axe mode will out damage 1 overhead slash for 1 overhead slash, but you asked for which mode would be the most damage if you will be hitting the monster constantly and I answered accordingly
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:16 am

Spoiler:
 

CBF working it out but why has everyone i have ever talked to bar you and a few others seem to say that with the black harvest axe mode is better...

And btw element discharge is totally useless as the continuous up slash down slash of the sword mode has been PROVEN to out damage the full discharge combo and finish in the same amount of time. I saw the calculation on a thread somewhere but i cant find it anymore...

Modedit: Combined posts and spoilered quote. Is it really neccessary to quote the previous post entirely?
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:42 am

In my experience axe mode generally does better damage against a moving monster, sword mode does better against a disabled one. Basically because of dat overhead chop for sniping, whereas the repeating axe mode combo isn't nearly as impressive.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:46 am

@Dark Soul Slayer wrote:
Can you prove this, according to the links this wrong.

can you prove your sources? one of our forum's best sources IS Kanade ;)

@Dark Soul Slayer wrote:
CBF working it out but why has everyone i have ever talked to bar you and a few others seem to say that with the black harvest axe mode is better...

because most people give answers based on a single hit calculation, kana has included the variables such as attack speed.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:11 pm

Just a restatement that sword mode attacks can be chained together for better damage over time until the phial runs out. To get the most out of BH you will likely be using axe mode taking potshots at a mobile monster and switching to sword mode when you can string multiple attacks together. Get used to the controls so you can do the mode switching moves mid combo without too much delay.

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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:47 pm

I'm with Kanade on this.
Axe is generally strong, yes.
Sword is faster though.

I mean you could hit once and do 900 damage but the time to hit take a while (I'm making up a wep. Do not decide to comment. This is an example) But now you have another mode that down half(?) or 3/4 the damage of the other mode but is faster.

You can have power but if your too slow to hit it. Try the faster version of the wep, the situations can change.

Personally, I use Switchaxe on Jho with my bari OF armor (i've always used Bari and i dont plan on changing that on Jho fights) I'm normally able to just get right under his belly and while I could swat his legs with Axe. I like using Sword because of I'm able to use Upswing more frequently and just hit his weak point, the belly.

Stats can explain a lot about weapons but it really depends on your fighting style and how you can respond to the situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:54 pm

you kan also hav da option to switch between sword and axe mode at anytime, it may take some time getting used to doing it. i generally use sword mode then immediately switch to axe mode and vice versa before da monster moves/attacks to be more flexible to changes.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:00 am

@navgoose wrote:
Just a restatement that sword mode attacks can be chained together for better damage over time until the phial runs out. To get the most out of BH you will likely be using axe mode taking potshots at a mobile monster and switching to sword mode when you can string multiple attacks together. Get used to the controls so you can do the mode switching moves mid combo without too much delay.


Yeah this is how im using it now Yes by vort
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:18 am

and if your really that concerned with the phial gauge running, just use harvest on a set with fastcharge. This way you can just switch between modes mid-attacks more often and get the best of the two for a longer duration.
the way I see it, the axes were created to have the beauty of two different weapon types into one. If it's given to you, why not use it? especially with the axe with the highest sharpness. just find a rhythm with your axe technique and go with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:19 am

@Otoshimo wrote:
and if your really that concerned with the phial gauge running, just use harvest on a set with fastcharge. This way you can just switch between modes mid-attacks more often and get the best of the two for a longer duration.
the way I see it, the axes were created to have the beauty of two different weapon types into one. If it's given to you, why not use it? especially with the axe with the highest sharpness. just find a rhythm with your axe technique and go with it.
I'd rather have distraction on instead of focus.
That way, I can reload twice when I have an empty sword gauge.
:D
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:44 am

@It's meh wrote:
@Otoshimo wrote:
and if your really that concerned with the phial gauge running, just use harvest on a set with fastcharge. This way you can just switch between modes mid-attacks more often and get the best of the two for a longer duration.
the way I see it, the axes were created to have the beauty of two different weapon types into one. If it's given to you, why not use it? especially with the axe with the highest sharpness. just find a rhythm with your axe technique and go with it.
I'd rather have distraction on instead of focus.
That way, I can reload twice when I have an empty sword gauge.
:D

If your just running with the sword mode till it's depleted, yea that'd work i guess. But as i and several others recommend, switch between sword mode and axe mode in combination attacks. Distraction wouldn't really matter there with the reloads unless the monster's stunned or down and you can get a full charge spalsh on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it ever ideal to use the sword mode of the black harvest?   Today at 9:11 am

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