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 Team make-up

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Enkidu
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PostSubject: Team make-up   Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Hey, had a bit of a search but couldn't find anything discussing the various weapon combos for teams.


As a good all-rounded one I'd go with a gunner, a SnS, a hammer and whatever for the 4th. Having the gunner means it gets less crowded around the monster, the SnS comes in as support and item use while the hammer can concentrate on KOing it.

For fun I've had a couple goes at having 4 gunners, you takes turns dodging while the other 3 unload like crazy.

Wouldn't mind trying a 4 SnS team, probably against a Bari, it'd be like hunting in fast forward.

Anyone else got a favoured team, or something that works well against a particular monster?
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:49 am

I stand corrected. Quad Bowgun, doesn't matter what weight so long as it works.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:01 am

@Lalo wrote:
2 paras, 2 hammers, a lot of pits

WHY HAVE 2 HAMMER 2 PARA WHEN YOU CAN HAVE 4 HAMMER 4 PARA
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:01 am

3 hammers/lancers
1 support gunner

tend to be the best for speedruns
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:53 am

If everyone uses a bowgun and stand at different sides of the map the Monster pretty much is screwed.

Too bad Tri only has like 2% bow gun usage.

4 melee almost always means you're going to get upswinged and tripped up.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:07 am

You won't get tripped if you're all using LS.
Poor Jaggi, he was cooked alive in a storm of fire and long, sharp blades. :hicc:

Seriously though, 4 untrippable weapons is complete abuse on the monster. So long as you don't upswing...

Also;
@Palas wrote:
WHY HAVE 2 HAMMER 2 PARA WHEN YOU CAN HAVE 4 HAMMER 4 PARA
ALLURING LOTUS PARTY
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:24 pm

Mr Stark wrote:
Also;
@Palas wrote:
WHY HAVE 2 HAMMER 2 PARA WHEN YOU CAN HAVE 4 HAMMER 4 PARA
ALLURING LOTUS PARTY

HELL YEAH
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:13 pm

@Palas wrote:
Mr Stark wrote:
Also;
@Palas wrote:
WHY HAVE 2 HAMMER 2 PARA WHEN YOU CAN HAVE 4 HAMMER 4 PARA
ALLURING LOTUS PARTY

HELL YEAH

I SECOND THAT MOTION!!
because I just made a mothra-mix set that works perfect with lotus XD
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:54 am

I bet that set has something to do with Bnahabra+!
Actually I'm trying to get the Numbingbird but despite bug searching in the Volcano I have no Rare Scarabs...Grrr.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:15 pm

Mr Stark wrote:
I bet that set has something to do with Bnahabra+!
Actually I'm trying to get the Numbingbird but despite bug searching in the Volcano I have no Rare Scarabs...Grrr.

They are called Rare Scarabs for a reason...
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:46 am

@Atalanta wrote:
Mr Stark wrote:
I bet that set has something to do with Bnahabra+!
Actually I'm trying to get the Numbingbird but despite bug searching in the Volcano I have no Rare Scarabs...Grrr.

They are called Rare Scarabs for a reason...

Indeed. I imagine that's why I'm always running out.

------------

In a team, the hunters are divided between Support and Damage, yes, but is there really a good balance between the two?

As a general rule, it's better for a damage-based hunter to use an elemental weapon, rather than a status weapon. This means that each hit deals more damage, allowing the monster to be brought to its knees quicker.

Support based hunters may use items to boost your team, and/or statuses to weaken the monster. However, focusing too heavily on Support may mean you don't get enough damage dealt. Ideal support weapons are Bowguns, which may be capable of multiple status attacks, while being able to use special bullets to empower other hunters.

Of course, many different weapons have status attacks - the main thing is to reach a team agreement about which status to use. A team with one Hypnos Knife, one Shadowbinder, one Blood Tabar and one elemental weapon may be flexible, but they'd inflict their statuses a lot less regularly. And the elemental hunter is good for damage.

Instead of the latter, consider this: one Shadow Javelin, one Blood Tabar, one Seiglinde and something else would be excellent for poisoning monsters, but will not be able to paralyse them or put them to sleep.

Which is better, then? I don't know. The choice is yours and your decision may save the day, or doom you all...
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:05 pm

@Spiritlord wrote:


Of course, many different weapons have status attacks - the main thing is to reach a team agreement about which status to use. A team with one Hypnos Knife, one Shadowbinder, one Blood Tabar and one elemental weapon may be flexible, but they'd inflict their statuses a lot less regularly.


I'd rather just Solo using the Bomb Boost-helios set with my Hypnos Knife and be done with the monster myself.
And alot of stat weps isn't necessarily best. you could have the team you listed up there against jho, for example, and be there for ever with like 1 stat effect each. Full-blown stat stat damage hunts are only good with everyone using the same stat wep (alluring lotus parties for example).
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:56 pm

@Otoshimo wrote:
@Spiritlord wrote:


Of course, many different weapons have status attacks - the main thing is to reach a team agreement about which status to use. A team with one Hypnos Knife, one Shadowbinder, one Blood Tabar and one elemental weapon may be flexible, but they'd inflict their statuses a lot less regularly.


I'd rather just Solo using the Bomb Boost-helios set with my Hypnos Knife and be done with the monster myself.
And alot of stat weps isn't necessarily best. you could have the team you listed up there against jho, for example, and be there for ever with like 1 stat effect each. Full-blown stat stat damage hunts are only good with everyone using the same stat wep (alluring lotus parties for example).

Hmmm? Ah, yes, I suppose I did leave out that particular point. Although...

@Spiritlord wrote:
As a general rule, it's better for a damage-based hunter to use an elemental weapon, rather than a status weapon. This means that each hit deals more damage, allowing the monster to be brought to its knees quicker.

This covers elemental attacks being better for simply damaging the enemy. And...

@Spiritlord wrote:
However, focusing too heavily on Support may mean you don't get enough damage dealt.

I guess this covers the point you mentioned... sort of. I really should have concluded it better, though. Right then.

It's probably best to have two Support and two Damage hunter in most teams. Say you'd decided you were going to try and poison the monster as much as possible, but wanted to leave two spaces free for elemental hunters. I'd recommend having one of your 'inflicters' using a low-damage weapon which could hit many times, like a Shadow Sabre, while the other could have a high damage weapon, like a Sieglinde. The idea is you get a considerable number of poison hits from one of the inflicters, while the other can poison the monster with fewer, more powerful hits.

It's probably good for every group to have at least one bowgun, for status and elemental attacks, as well as survivability. They also don't get in your way when you're trying to attack.

I personally recommend lances, longswords and greatswords as the fastest killing weapons available. It's probably best to take at least one of these weapons into the team.

Hammers can be used in the above category, but can also fill an important team role. It can knock out monsters, which is very helpful. I believe it can also drain their stamina somehow, but I might have just made that up.

Swords and Shields can make great support weapons, considering their powerful statuses, and the hunter's ability to use items with the weapon out. Sometimes, they are used as damage-dealers, but this is quite rare and most weapons work better for this anyway.

As for Switch-Axes, I suppose they come under the damage-dealing slot. Despite this, they're not as effective as other weapons. I wouldn't recommend using a Switch-Axe over most other weapons for damage-dealing purposes, but they still have their uses. Their two forms may give them good versatility, but neither form is actually very good compared to other weapons. They're not my favourite.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:36 pm

Not to digress much, but since there seems to be a discussion about status techniques, has any hammer user tried baiting the monster once exhaustion has been applied?

I was thinking about it - getting the exhaust status on certain monsters is easier than KO (Agna!). I'm wondering if it'd be worthwhile to put down either a Tinged Meat or Drugged Meat and use the opportunity for more damage. In fact, this could come to a discussion of another Support Hunter: the Trapper (uses traps, baits, sonics, and flashes to keep the monster immobilized for other to use their high DPS attacks on).


Back to the main topic: the only statuses worth pursuing (IMO) in a team are those that immobilize the monster. And for blades, that's really limited to the hammer's KO/exhaust, and paralysis weapons. Poison's not worth it, and unless lots of bombs are brought, multiple sleep statuses are wasted opportunities and actually slow the hunt down.

A great hunt I had earlier was a two person hunt of a Barroth+. I was wielding the Jho hammer, and my partner had the paralysis LS (I'm not sure if she had Shadowbinder (G) or just an Anata Boneblade+, since she was HR37 at the time). I got Barroth to exhaustion, then she got him paralyzed, then I got a KO, and then yet another paralysis. That was almost 40 seconds of immobilization. I've seen similar long periods on Agna after an initial sonic bomb to start the chain. Throw a trap in there, and I think you can get over a minute of immobilization. That's a lot of damage.


Oh and to address a few earlier comments:


@Spiritlord wrote:
As a general rule, it's better for a damage-based hunter to use an elemental weapon, rather than a status weapon. This means that each hit deals more damage, allowing the monster to be brought to its knees quicker.

Actually, it's weapon class dependent:
  • LS and SnS: pick best elemental weapons
  • GS & Hammer: pick best raw attack, unless there is a slightly lower raw weapon available with appropriate element
  • Lance: this one varies, element matters more than GS, but less than LS/SnS
  • Swax: in most cases, pick the best power phial weapon
  • Gunner: pretty rare I see elemental shot being used. For a damage gunner, it's usually Pierce or Clust

For all the blades, take sharpness into account, of course.

@Spiritlord wrote:

It's probably best to have two Support and two Damage hunter in most teams. Say you'd decided you were going to try and poison the monster as much as possible, but wanted to leave two spaces free for elemental hunters. I'd recommend having one of your 'inflicters' using a low-damage weapon which could hit many times, like a Shadow Sabre, while the other could have a high damage weapon, like a Sieglinde. The idea is you get a considerable number of poison hits from one of the inflicters, while the other can poison the monster with fewer, more powerful hits.

I don't consider the Sieglinde a status weapon. The High Sieglinde (P) has the 2nd highest raw attack of any GS, and is the easiest of those to make. So it's in regular use until the hunter has Anguish (P), which has the same raw but higher sharpness. Rare is the hunt that I see poison inflicted by a High Sieglinde user.

Status dealers need to apply status fast - the monsters recover status points in between hits, so infrequent status hits from a GS just don't stack up fast enough to cause status. That's why for paralysis, the para hammers will spam the spin attack, and para lancers will spam the charge, because they cause a lot of status attacks in a short period of time. So in general, status dealers are limited to the faster LS and SnS to apply status quickly and repeatedly.


@Spiritlord wrote:

Hammers can be used in the above category, but can also fill an important team role. It can knock out monsters, which is very helpful. I believe it can also drain their stamina somehow, but I might have just made that up.

Nope, that's called exhaust. It happens when a hammer attack is used on any part of the body other than the head. Great on Lagi, since that's usually the only time he'll go on land.

I consider all hammers as status weapons. They do quite a bit more damage than other status weapons, though, so it does make them hard to characterize.

The para hammers are the only blademaster weapon that is a dual status weapon - the main reason why 4x Alluring Lotus parties are a riot. KO + exhaust + para = almost constant immobilization.

@Spiritlord wrote:

As for Switch-Axes, I suppose they come under the damage-dealing slot. Despite this, they're not as effective as other weapons. I wouldn't recommend using a Switch-Axe over most other weapons for damage-dealing purposes, but they still have their uses. Their two forms may give them good versatility, but neither form is actually very good compared to other weapons. They're not my favourite.

Most Switch-Axes are damage dealers (the barroth series is para). They do shine in certain situations - they have great reach and mobility, so they're excellent for cutting tails and damaging tall monsters. Call them breaking specialists - teams without them seem to have trouble with cutting tails, getting all of Agna's claws broken, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:19 am

@Atalanta wrote:
Oh and to address a few earlier comments:

@Spiritlord wrote:
As a general rule, it's better for a damage-based hunter to use an elemental weapon, rather than a status weapon. This means that each hit deals more damage, allowing the monster to be brought to its knees quicker.

Actually, it's weapon class dependent:
  • LS and SnS: pick best elemental weapons
  • GS & Hammer: pick best raw attack, unless there is a slightly lower raw weapon available with appropriate element
  • Lance: this one varies, element matters more than GS, but less than LS/SnS
  • Swax: in most cases, pick the best power phial weapon
  • Gunner: pretty rare I see elemental shot being used. For a damage gunner, it's usually Pierce or Clust

For all the blades, take sharpness into account, of course.

Fair enough.

@Atalanta wrote:
@Spiritlord wrote:

It's probably best to have two Support and two Damage hunter in most teams. Say you'd decided you were going to try and poison the monster as much as possible, but wanted to leave two spaces free for elemental hunters. I'd recommend having one of your 'inflicters' using a low-damage weapon which could hit many times, like a Shadow Sabre, while the other could have a high damage weapon, like a Sieglinde. The idea is you get a considerable number of poison hits from one of the inflicters, while the other can poison the monster with fewer, more powerful hits.

I don't consider the Sieglinde a status weapon. The High Sieglinde (P) has the 2nd highest raw attack of any GS, and is the easiest of those to make. So it's in regular use until the hunter has Anguish (P), which has the same raw but higher sharpness. Rare is the hunt that I see poison inflicted by a High Sieglinde user.

That was just an example. Although I use it as a status weapon pretty regularly and it works surprisingly well. Of course, it's not much good against fast monsters, but never mind. Even if the poison isn't always as good as it is from other weapons, the damage is still great.

@Atalanta wrote:
Status dealers need to apply status fast - the monsters recover status points in between hits, so infrequent status hits from a GS just don't stack up fast enough to cause status. That's why for paralysis, the para hammers will spam the spin attack, and para lancers will spam the charge, because they cause a lot of status attacks in a short period of time. So in general, status dealers are limited to the faster LS and SnS to apply status quickly and repeatedly.

Yes, but it can also help to have strong hits to make the monster lose large amounts of status points in a single hit. It doesn't work as well as well as fast attacks, though, and is only really effective if you use it in combination with a fast status inflicter. Although it's probably still better to have an extra fast inflicter.

@Atalanta wrote:
@Spiritlord wrote:

Hammers can be used in the above category, but can also fill an important team role. It can knock out monsters, which is very helpful. I believe it can also drain their stamina somehow, but I might have just made that up.

Nope, that's called exhaust. It happens when a hammer attack is used on any part of the body other than the head. Great on Lagi, since that's usually the only time he'll go on land.

I consider all hammers as status weapons. They do quite a bit more damage than other status weapons, though, so it does make them hard to characterize.

The para hammers are the only blademaster weapon that is a dual status weapon - the main reason why 4x Alluring Lotus parties are a riot. KO + exhaust + para = almost constant immobilization.

That sounds useful. So hammers are good for support as well as damage? No team should be without one, then.

@Atalanta wrote:
@Spiritlord wrote:

As for Switch-Axes, I suppose they come under the damage-dealing slot. Despite this, they're not as effective as other weapons. I wouldn't recommend using a Switch-Axe over most other weapons for damage-dealing purposes, but they still have their uses. Their two forms may give them good versatility, but neither form is actually very good compared to other weapons. They're not my favourite.

Most Switch-Axes are damage dealers (the barroth series is para). They do shine in certain situations - they have great reach and mobility, so they're excellent for cutting tails and damaging tall monsters. Call them breaking specialists - teams without them seem to have trouble with cutting tails, getting all of Agna's claws broken, etc.

I generally find that the axe form is good for reach, and does reasonable damage, with not many massive flaws. And the sword form has fast attaacks and deals lots of damage, but is harder to use than the more reliable axe form. I'm not a huge fan of the switch-axe, though, as you've probably guessed.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:40 am

@Spiritlord wrote:
Spoiler:
 

Yes, but it can also help to have strong hits to make the monster lose large amounts of status points in a single hit. It doesn't work as well as well as fast attacks, though, and is only really effective if you use it in combination with a fast status inflicter. Although it's probably still better to have an extra fast inflicter.

I think the point you were trying to make is the use of a high damage weapon that deals status secondarily. Support the support, or something to that effect. But those weapons really are damage dealers, not support weapons. And the only blademaster weapons that fit into that category are the Sieglinde series. There aren't any other status GS (unless you use Awakening - which isn't optimal), and in the other blademaster weapon classes, the status weapons have significant reductions in their damage output to balance with their success rate of status infliction, making every single one of them support first, damage second.

With the exception of the hammer. My favorite status weapon.

Also, take a look at the status outputs using the damage calculator on http://mhtri.comeze.com
The Sieglinde does 32 pts per infliction. The Shadow Saber+ does 27 pts per infliction.
That's hardly a "strong hit."


@Spiritlord wrote:

@Atalanta wrote:
Spoiler:
 
.

That sounds useful. So hammers are good for support as well as damage? No team should be without one, then.

Hammers are great support weapons. Plus Hammers deal significantly more damage than other status weapons. They're the closest to a hybrid hunter (damage + support) that a blademaster can be. They won't get close to matching the damage of a GS or an elemental LS, but the immobilization opportunities more than make up for the reduction in damage.

A team of 2 hammers as your support works wonders. Add in 2 elemental LS for high damage, and that team can be devastating on some of the larger monsters, where there's room for the LS to spam spirit combos without tripping each other or the hammers. That's a fast team that can get most of the body breaks done before the hunt is over. And it doesn't require much skill beyond getting the first KO, so it's a great team for randoms. If the hammers get a rhythm going, taking turns superpounding the head, it's no contest. This team can take down a HR Gigginox in under 6 min without any items or traps. Pitfall Bari once to get him stationary for the first KO, and you get similar results. Agna and Lagi fall easily to this team too, with the hammers hitting the body (back claws please!) to cause exhaustion when the head isn't in range.

It's not a pro team, but for a team of randoms, it's one of the best combos out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:06 pm

@Atalanta wrote:
I think the point you were trying to make is the use of a high damage weapon that deals status secondarily. Support the support, or something to that effect. But those weapons really are damage dealers, not support weapons. And the only blademaster weapons that fit into that category are the Sieglinde series. There aren't any other status GS (unless you use Awakening - which isn't optimal), and in the other blademaster weapon classes, the status weapons have significant reductions in their damage output to balance with their success rate of status infliction, making every single one of them support first, damage second.

Yes, that's pretty much what I was saying. Sieglinde is just a weapon I like to use, and it can still work relatively well for inflicting. The main point is that most status weapons have below average base damage. Sieglinde does not, although it's probably still best used as a damage dealer, as you said.

@Atalanta wrote:
The Sieglinde does 32 pts per infliction. The Shadow Saber+ does 27 pts per infliction.
That's hardly a "strong hit."

Really? I wasn't aware of the exact calculations, but I assumed that it more or less balanced out, because I can normally poison monsters relatively quickly with Sieglinde. Not too much slower than I can with my Shadow Sabre+, at any rate. I suppose that must say more about me than the weapons, then. I certainly prefer greatswords.

@Atalanta wrote:
Hammers are great support weapons. Plus Hammers deal significantly more damage than other status weapons. They're the closest to a hybrid hunter (damage + support) that a blademaster can be. They won't get close to matching the damage of a GS or an elemental LS, but the immobilization opportunities more than make up for the reduction in damage.

A team of 2 hammers as your support works wonders. Add in 2 elemental LS for high damage, and that team can be devastating on some of the larger monsters, where there's room for the LS to spam spirit combos without tripping each other or the hammers. That's a fast team that can get most of the body breaks done before the hunt is over. And it doesn't require much skill beyond getting the first KO, so it's a great team for randoms. If the hammers get a rhythm going, taking turns superpounding the head, it's no contest. This team can take down a HR Gigginox in under 6 min without any items or traps. Pitfall Bari once to get him stationary for the first KO, and you get similar results. Agna and Lagi fall easily to this team too, with the hammers hitting the body (back claws please!) to cause exhaustion when the head isn't in range.

It's not a pro team, but for a team of randoms, it's one of the best combos out there.

That's interesting. I never would have guessed that hammers would be good for support. Oh well.

I've very rarely been part of a good team setup. Or at least, a well organised one. I think virtually all of the teams I've seen have fought in a sort of "free for all" style, in that everyone just acted for themselves, rather than operating as a unified force. I've sometimes changed my weapon to try to suit a good strategy for the monster, but I've never really acted as an organised team. Oh well.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:23 am

They say Alluring Lotus isn't a good support weapon because it inflicts much less KO's than Devil' Crush/Alatreon Metamorh and inflicts much less para than Shadowbinder (P) or Almighty Dahaka. Well, that's obvious, but the trump card is that Allung Lotus (and, alright, Iron Devil) is the only weapon that can inflict both status in sequence. That's invaluable. 3 KO's or 3 paras in a battle is good, but one KO and a Para right after is actually better because it keeps momentum. You are sure your teammates will already be there by the time the status is inflicted, so you don't lose absolutely any time.

Add in a Shock Trap and you're sure to cut even Uragaan's tail in one shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:07 pm

@Palas wrote:
They say Alluring Lotus isn't a good support weapon because it inflicts much less KO's than Devil' Crush/Alatreon Metamorh and inflicts much less para than Shadowbinder (P) or Almighty Dahaka. Well, that's obvious, but the trump card is that Allung Lotus (and, alright, Iron Devil) is the only weapon that can inflict both status in sequence. That's invaluable. 3 KO's or 3 paras in a battle is good, but one KO and a Para right after is actually better because it keeps momentum. You are sure your teammates will already be there by the time the status is inflicted, so you don't lose absolutely any time.

Add in a Shock Trap and you're sure to cut even Uragaan's tail in one shot.

I wonder which inflicts more immobilizations (KOs + Para): 2 Alluring Lotus, or 1 Devil's Crush / 1 Shadowbinder. Para + KO is incredibly powerful.


Of course, I have issue with the above statement - I find it's rare to get 3 KOs off when I'm the only one hammering in a team of 4. On a single monster hunt, with one hammer, I expect to get 2 KOs. If I'm with an exceptionally good team, I may only get one before the mob goes down. That's pretty rare, though.

If I get 3 or more KOs, it's either in a scenario where the team split up to take on two mobs separately, or someone isn't pulling their weight (weak skills, weak weapon, or leech). So I'd rather be doing the additional damage along with the status inflctions by using Jho or Ala hammers in that scenario.

So really, it should be a comparison of having two KOs/paras spaced out, or a KO closely followed by a para. And that really depends on a number of factors:
  • Target Monster - on monsters difficult to KO (like Agna), it might be better to use a para hammer to increase the odds of getting a 2nd immobilization. Although Agna is ridiculously easy to get multiple paras with a para LS - maybe not the best example.
  • Hunter skill - the less reliable the hunter of getting multiple immobilizations (a good hammerer should get 2 KOs in a team of 4, a good para LS/SnS should get 2 paras), the more advantageous it should be to use para hammer to ensure a 2nd immobilization. Yes, I'm saying that the para hammer is noob friendly. In most games, versatile weapons / items / characters
  • Team's DPS - a low DPS team needs to have more immobilizations, so a high KO or high para weapon is better. A high DPS team (especially multiple elemental LS) can really exploit the KO + para combo to speed up a hunt, so para hammer could be better with a high DPS team.
  • Team size - smaller teams need more opportunities. On a team of 2 or 3 hunters, go for pure KO or pure para.
  • Number of target monsters - if the team splits up in a duo quest (like Double Trouble), it essentially makes the team smaller, so pure KO or pure para is better. This doesn't always happen - a lot depends on team tactics and starting positions.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:50 pm

[quote="Atalanta"]
@Palas wrote:


Of course, I have issue with the above statement - I find it's rare to get 3 KOs off when I'm the only one hammering in a team of 4. On a single monster hunt, with one hammer, I expect to get 2 KOs. If I'm with an exceptionally good team, I may only get one before the mob goes down. That's pretty rare, though.

If I get 3 or more KOs, it's either in a scenario where the team split up to take on two mobs separately, or someone isn't pulling their weight (weak skills, weak weapon, or leech). So I'd rather be doing the additional damage along with the status inflctions by using Jho or Ala hammers in that scenario.
[/list]

What armor are you using when you hammer? and how well are you at evading thru roars/attacks & such.

Cuz I can usually land like 4-5 stuns if i'm hammering alone. even my S. Axe set gives me 4 stuns solid. If you want a good hammer set to experiment with I could PC you the specs (and if possible mabey jump online & hunt with ya & have a hammer party)

Palas, your alluring lotus fixation is contagious XD
I'm über-Syched to try Lotus with my hammer sets now!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:49 pm

@Otoshimo wrote:
Spoiler:
 

4-5 stuns sounds really high, unless you're soloing high rank. If you're the sole hammerer in a group, getting 4-5 KOs isn't evidence of your superior skill, it's evidence of your team's lack of it. They should be doing more damage. When you're getting 4-5 stuns, how long are the hunts? Say a 5* hunt (Los, Agna, Gaan, Lagi, Bari). I'm used to these hunts going around 7-8 min with a good team, and I'll get 2 KOs (maybe 3 on Gaan).

In fact, let's use some data (I'm an engineer IRL, so I'm not always convinced by arguments without data):
Spoiler:
 

tl;dr version: if you are the only hammer in a team of 4 and
You get 4 KOs: you did more damage than each of your teammates
You get 5 or more KOs: you did more damage than the rest of your team COMBINED. I guess you like leeches.



Oh, and I'm typically not worried about evading thru roars - I'm usually using the headless helios set for HGE/Sharpness +1 so I can use the roar period to get a superpound or a triple pound off on their vulnerable head (either during the roar like Ian, or when they drop their head back down after the roar like Agna). Until I got that set, I like the Bari set to evade through roars, but having Sharpness +1 is more important for getting KOs. I've started using Focus (Baggi+ Helm with Dynamo, and a 3slot talisman with Dynamo), but I'm so used to not having it that my timing is off.

btw: I'd be up for a Lotus party. It's a lot of fun. Agna's a blast - everyone pick a leg and spin! Exhaust and para and Agna Claws! Unfortunately, I'll be moving soon for a new job (so long unemployment!), so my TV and Wii will be packed in the next few days.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:09 pm

@Otoshimo wrote:
What armor are you using when you hammer? and how well are you at evading thru roars/attacks & such.

Cuz I can usually land like 4-5 stuns if i'm hammering alone. even my S. Axe set gives me 4 stuns solid. If you want a good hammer set to experiment with I could PC you the specs (and if possible mabey jump online & hunt with ya & have a hammer party)

Palas, your alluring lotus fixation is contagious XD
I'm über-Syched to try Lotus with my hammer sets now!!!

I normally use the mix of Helios stuff and Bahabra+ Waist, giving me Sharpness +1, Status Atk Up and Earplugs. If I had a better talisman, I'd get HG Earplugs.

But the thing is - yeah, I might get 3 or even 4 KO's when I use Alatreon Metamorph. But that's not the point. Having one KO followed by Para is more effective than 3 occasional scattered KO's - of course, there is A LOT of stuff we should be considering here. For example, if the weapons your teammates are using deplete their optimal sharpness too quickly (such is the case of... Devil's Crush (P)), then if we do the math we'll arrive the conclusion that the scattered KO's are better. But the thing is that when you have an extended period of immobility, it's much easier for the team to focus on a specific part to break.

And, well, yes, I'm a little obssessed with my favourite weapon <3

EDIT: And ah, sharpness plays an important role here. This problem doesn't occur with Iron Devil, but the Lotus has a tiny little bit of white sharpness - an absolute must if one wants to KO. Meanwhile, the hammerer's primary tool to inflict status is the Beyblade Move, which depletes sharpness rather quickly. So it is advisable to try to KO before Para.
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PostSubject: Re: Team make-up   Today at 5:37 pm

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