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 MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)

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Sai_
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PostSubject: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIJ9PkXRik Click on English Subs

This information is pretty old. What this basically is, upon starting a new character in MH3U, you will be locked into what is believed to be 1 out of 17 charm tables. This means that if you happen to be locked into table 7, that is the ONLY way you will be able to have a chance at an attack god charm. Other tables like table 10 are considered the best because that table is the only one with essential charms

Ways to find out about what table your in:

Moga Fish Ship method:
http://www.hayasoft.com/chisamin/mh3g/tsearch7.cgi

According to what charms you already have method:
http://mh.websimu.mydns.jp/3g_oma/xxx/table.php

Charm Table:
http://www10.atwiki.jp/mh3g/pages/72.html

In other words, once you start MH3U, the table you are locked in means you will NOT be able to obtain other charms besides that table. This is ridiculous.

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Yamatsu
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:21 pm

@Sai_ wrote:
Once MH3U comes out, I will confirm if this table does exist. I'll choose table 10; once I get a charm from another table, I will post here. If I don't get even the simplest of charms like a B+2 from another table during my playthrough, it will be obvious if this does exist.
Has it been confirmed what table drops stuff like B +10 A +4/5 ?
Probably won't bother resetting for charms... Especially when it takes an entire character to do so.
Most likely it'll carry to our release... I'm pretty bummed out by this :/
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dcj91x
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:23 pm

@Sai_ wrote:
Once MH3U comes out, I will confirm if this table does exist. I'll choose table 10; once I get a charm from another table, I will post here. If I don't get even the simplest of charms like a B+2 from another table during my playthrough, it will be obvious if this does exist.

For that to work correctly you will have to test it on both the 3DS and WiiU several times after turning the games on and off and possibly transfering the data back and forth. Then you will have a more accurate telling of it being a locked system or not.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:25 pm

Yama, the table list is in the opening post. I believe I named it "Charm Guide" or something.
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dcj91x
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:33 pm

@Yamatsu wrote:
@Sai_ wrote:
Once MH3U comes out, I will confirm if this table does exist. I'll choose table 10; once I get a charm from another table, I will post here. If I don't get even the simplest of charms like a B+2 from another table during my playthrough, it will be obvious if this does exist.
Has it been confirmed what table drops stuff like B +10 A +4/5 ?
Probably won't bother resetting for charms... Especially when it takes an entire character to do so.
Most likely it'll carry to our release... I'm pretty bummed out by this :/

Capcom Japan also originally said that the western release of MH3G (3U) would be the same as that released in Japan and not contain voice chat.... We have voice chat. If they are willing to make one change other things may have been changed as well.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:35 pm

@Sai_ wrote:
Yama, the table list is in the opening post. I believe I named it "Charm Guide" or something.
confound it all it's in japanese.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:40 am

Well I'm a little late to responding to this party, but WOW! This one subject tore the whole monster hunter community apart into a savage "Casual 'Scrub' Players VS. Hardcore 'Serious Business' Players" war. As much as I wouldn't like something like this to be implemented into the game, I don't think it's worth all this strife and grief.

So assuming this is implemented in the western version and we can't get the particular charm(s) without many hours of trial and error. As a player who wants to be able to be at the very best of their own game, that would be a bit of a bummer, and especially confusing as it would be a change to a mechanic that already worked just fine. However, if I seriously need to make my character the very best I can personally make it, I probably wouldn't mind spending a few extra hours making it right: Hell, I'm going to be spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours on that character anyway! And, assuming it is not the case for the western version, and they re-implement the "Tri/P3rd" charm table mechanics, then none of this will matter. Still, at least it's a nice thing to be aware of, whether or not it can impact us negatively or positively. Being knowledgeable about something, regardless of how important it is or isn't, is never a bad thing!


And on that note, I shall leave you with these links.

TrollJho


Last edited by anduin55 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to make y'all laugh)
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Will
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:03 am

@anduin55 wrote:
Well I'm a little late to responding to this party, but WOW! This one subject tore the whole monster hunter community apart into a savage "Casual 'Scrub' Players VS. Hardcore 'Serious Business' Players" war. As much as I wouldn't like something like this to be implemented into the game, I don't think it's worth all this strife and grief.

So assuming this is implemented in the western version and we can't get the particular charm(s) without many hours of trial and error. As a player who wants to be able to be at the very best of their own game, that would be a bit of a bummer, and especially confusing as it would be a change to a mechanic that already worked just fine. However, if I seriously need to make my character the very best I can personally make it, I probably wouldn't mind spending a few extra hours making it right: Hell, I'm going to be spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours on that character anyway! And, assuming it is not the case for the western version, and they re-implement the "Tri/P3rd" charm table mechanics, then none of this will matter. Still, at least it's a nice thing to be aware of, whether or not it can impact us negatively or positively. Being knowledgeable about something, regardless of how important it is or isn't, is never a bad thing!


And on that note, I shall leave you with these links.

TrollJho
OH MY GOD, WE ARE SAVED, ANDUIN55 HAS SAVED THE MH FAN BASE WITH HIS SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE AND GENERAL AWESOMENESS, WITH THOSE LINKS TO VARIOUS TROPES HE HAS MADE US ALL BETTER PEOPLE, WE SHOULD ALL BE PROUD HE IS A MEMBER OF OUR FORUM.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:12 am

@Will wrote:
@anduin55 wrote:
Well I'm a little late to responding to this party, but WOW! This one subject tore the whole monster hunter community apart into a savage "Casual 'Scrub' Players VS. Hardcore 'Serious Business' Players" war. As much as I wouldn't like something like this to be implemented into the game, I don't think it's worth all this strife and grief.

So assuming this is implemented in the western version and we can't get the particular charm(s) without many hours of trial and error. As a player who wants to be able to be at the very best of their own game, that would be a bit of a bummer, and especially confusing as it would be a change to a mechanic that already worked just fine. However, if I seriously need to make my character the very best I can personally make it, I probably wouldn't mind spending a few extra hours making it right: Hell, I'm going to be spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours on that character anyway! And, assuming it is not the case for the western version, and they re-implement the "Tri/P3rd" charm table mechanics, then none of this will matter. Still, at least it's a nice thing to be aware of, whether or not it can impact us negatively or positively. Being knowledgeable about something, regardless of how important it is or isn't, is never a bad thing!


And on that note, I shall leave you with these links.

TrollJho
OH MY GOD, WE ARE SAVED, ANDUIN55 HAS SAVED THE MH FAN BASE WITH HIS SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE AND GENERAL AWESOMENESS, WITH THOSE LINKS TO VARIOUS TROPES HE HAS MADE US ALL BETTER PEOPLE, WE SHOULD ALL BE PROUD HE IS A MEMBER OF OUR FORUM.

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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:35 am

@Yamatsu wrote:
Most likely it'll carry to our release... I'm pretty bummed out by this :/

Yesterday i read on capcom-unity thread that one user message Yuri about this issue on mid october 2012. He got response. Yuri answered that he'll take a look into tables system. And as for today there's no official statement about tables. It's safe assumption that they don't take it seriously and leave the game as it was in Japan.

Also it kind of interesting - using fishery rewards to locate a table you're in opens up a question how deep these tables truly go? What if they determine quest rewards frequency? And other stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:31 am

Hey people this may make me look bad but I don't care just shut up and enjoy the game capcom doesn't NEED to localize the game they can just forget all about it today and say hey you know what no mh3u for the west. I said what I said because hey you know what I don't care it's been THREE years since we last had a game so I'll take what I've been dealt. Yeah it's a bummer but nothing a few hours of trial and error doesn't fix.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:06 am

@Yuki wrote:
Hey people this may make me look bad but I don't care just shut up and enjoy the game capcom doesn't NEED to localize the game they can just forget all about it today and say hey you know what no mh3u for the west. I said what I said because hey you know what I don't care it's been THREE years since we last had a game so I'll take what I've been dealt. Yeah it's a bummer but nothing a few hours of trial and error doesn't fix.
THIS
Just think: do you NEED a godcharm to enjoy the game?
I think godcharms were made this hard to obtain to keep people from farming for charms for a ridiculous amount time instead of just playing the game, hunting with friends and having a good time!
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:10 am

Just a friendly reminder... It's ok to be upset over the system or not, express your opinion about it and how you feel it should have been done....

But please do not attack, insult or be upset at other forum members for their opinions of this. I would like to think we can keep this DISCUSION friendly.


There is no reason to get upset with each other as I'm sure no one here was in charge of programing for this. (Unless you have a secret.)
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:07 am

I am starting to think that the apparent "tables", is not really a table issue, but more likely something to do with the way the RNG works in TriG. The RNG might actually be picking from a subset of random numbers that it applies whenever it has to pick a reward from the list of possible outcomes. The problem then comes when it has to choose what subset of numbers to use. If it is determined when you first create your character, then it would be an easy concept (not neceserily in application), to just switch it from being "upon creation" to "upon loading".

The RNG will affect everything that allows for varied results, and I am sure that even when it comes to the farm outcomes, this would have to do something with it.

In my opinion, capcom would do well to avoid using this type of RNG (if indeed it is because of the RNG) and use another type of weighted RNG to bring about the desired results.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:27 pm

@Gilgames wrote:
THIS
Just think: do you NEED a godcharm to enjoy the game?
I think godcharms were made this hard to obtain to keep people from farming for charms for a ridiculous amount time instead of just playing the game, hunting with friends and having a good time!
Yes.
If we wanna be the very best, like no one ever was; then yes, we do need a godcharm. It's something more to strive for.

It's cool that some of you aren't that caring about the more in-depth mechanics of the game, but you won't get your point across by saying stuff like
"oh shut up and play the game FOR FUN YEAH!1!"

Those of us who DO like to know more about game mechanics, this is an issue that we'd be concerned about. Previously we could figure out when to keep on farming for the best charms by simply restarting the console; now we need to restart our entire save file/make a new one.

"a few hours of dedication" isn't what it is (though in the literal sense yes it could take between a few and a lot of hours); if what Sai said is true about there being 17 tables there are some serious problems with permanent lockouts unless more than one table is rolled per character. In fairness though, the possible skills haven't even been all updated yet on the jp wiki.

Some people just want to get the best possible gear. This system extremely handicaps their ability to do so...
I for one will just roll with it (huehuehue clever clever), can't be bothered to start a new character for a chance at the ultimate lance charm.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:58 pm

@Yamatsu wrote:

It's cool that some of you aren't that caring about the more in-depth mechanics of the game, but you won't get your point across by saying stuff like
"oh shut up and play the game FOR FUN YEAH!1!"

This.

Just accept it. People vary, for one fun fun fun is all, for the other playing serious. Respect others opinions. This forum is all about sharing opinions with others. You say "shut up"? I beg your pardon?

Sure we don't need to care about charms. We don't need Monster Hunter at all. We don't need to breath, we don't need to live... but still, some of us cares.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:09 pm

You are missing the point I am making there are differences in opinions but most of you sound like ungrateful little brats. Three years since the newest game has come out sure what capcom did was unfair but hey they are the owners of the series their game they can do whatever they want to it. So as I said shut up and enjoy the game. Do as you wish with it not my place to tell you what to do but take in to consideration not everyone has had the money to import monster hunter portable 3rd or a Japanese 3DS and tri g so many people have been waiting a long time. Sure it will be a pain for them and a little saddening but there ARE ways around it just have to look for them. Sai is giving everyone the tools for it so its not like we are going in blind we know what to do so no reason to complain. I don't think it's a casual core thing anymore it's just people thinking companies have to do everything they want. They may change it next game maybe not they need player feedback not just pure negatives tell them the good and the bad what you would like to see in future games and what you want taken out. But quit whining its not the end of the world here.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:34 pm

@Yuki wrote:
You are missing the point I am making there are differences in opinions but most of you sound like ungrateful little brats. Three years since the newest game has come out sure what capcom did was unfair but hey they are the owners of the series their game they can do whatever they want to it.
We aren't trying to sound like "ungrateful little brats." That's a rather stark way to put it; we're interested in some mechanics, and Capcom changed it to a form that is completely inconvenient for people in to grinding. It was possible to look for a specific group of charms in P3rd (not sure about Tri). We don't understand WHY they did this; it's just (again) an inconvenience.

Quote :
So as I said shut up and enjoy the game. Do as you wish with it not my place to tell you what to do but take in to consideration not everyone has had the money to import monster hunter portable 3rd or a Japanese 3DS and tri g so many people have been waiting a long time.
I'm sure all of us are happy that we're finally getting more MH attention outside of Japan, but like Antari said this IS how some people will enjoy the game. Not allowing them to reliably get the items they're looking for taints some of the experience.

Quote :
Sure it will be a pain for them and a little saddening but there ARE ways around it just have to look for them. Sai is giving everyone the tools for it so its not like we are going in blind we know what to do so no reason to complain. I don't think it's a casual core thing anymore it's just people thinking companies have to do everything they want. They may change it next game maybe not they need player feedback not just pure negatives tell them the good and the bad what you would like to see in future games and what you want taken out. But quit whining its not the end of the world here.
Ways like what? Generating charms? It worked in P3rd because the PSP was piss easy to hack; the 3DS hasn't been properly hacked as of yet, nor the Wii U I believe.
The tools Sai is providing are most certainly handy; they're giving us a faster way to find our charm table. The problems still remain though that 1. it takes too long, 2. it requires a new character and 3. you can only get x amount of skills per character...

Can we always have our way? Most certainy not.
But Capcom put a lockout on a system which previously didn't have, or need one for that matter, because the best charms were so rare anyways. They're limiting our choices and variety for end-game play.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:37 pm

I wasn't talking about generating charms but if you are targeting certain skills try to get on the table make a character for each weapon class you want to main if its that big an issue but there are ways around it.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:28 pm

Aside from this whole tables "thing", i think that being able to forge your own talis will be a interesting addition to MH series. The only downside is that it will simplify the formula a bit. Of course the ammount of rare materials needed to forge god talis should be insane like 50 skypiercers or gems, rubys, plates etc. Mabye even give players choice of simply buying some average talis in shop?
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:57 pm

That I can agree on I just had a thought http://www.mh3-ultimate.com/page/Armor+Skills


Mh3u has every skill from mhp3rd tri and its own additions trying to find the god tali for each in a mh3 like formula sounds impossible let Lone one I guess it gives the players a chance to at least acquire one or two in their time playing
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:33 pm

Charm Tables... Doesn't matter, MH3U bundle announced...

Only for EU but I still hold to the Wait and see method. Until the game is released next month I'm still not going to put too much thought into the tables.

Also before I give into the "Locked charms" here is what I want to see done:

1. It needs to be tested on the Western versions of the game. Thought it has been done on the 3DS 3G version and stated to be the same on the WiiU 3Ghd version.. this has not been shown anywhere. (if so please show it being done for both systems.)

And as stated this still does not 100% confirm that it will and can not and has not changed in the localization process. other things have changed before.. Ala in Tri, and Voice chat in 3U even after Capcom Japan stating that the western version would not recieve this. So there is a possibility that other "updates" have been made as well.

2. It has to be tested with the same character multiple times using the same file on both the WiiU and 3DS versions of MH3U. Not speperate characters by sepreate people. Without having it done by the same person using the same character on both systems you CAN NOT get an accurate determination of it being the same system on both games and being equal throughout saves. This also has to be tested multiple times to come up with an average on both systems. And with multiple characters.

3. The fishing method.. seems a little fishy to me. In the past there have been actual computer programs that have been able to determin how things work in MH games.. This has yet to be able to be done on MH with the 3DS and WiiU, there needs to be a more reliable method. (Think of something.)


Just keep all this in mind. I'm not saying to dismiss it entirely but is there anypoint in getting worked up over it when in all honesty we really don't know at this time if it will be in the Western version or work the way many assume it does or not? There are a lot of varibles.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:54 pm

If they were possible for people to decide what their talismans would be (aside from playing the game until you have them all), then they could just as well throw the talismans away and add a couple of slots onto every armour.

For me, the...charm (pun intended), is that the talisman is ruled by luck. Equipment is created by using rare materials, but those can be used on several things, while talismans just give you something, take it or leave/sell it. I like that small distinction.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:20 pm

@Win32error wrote:
If they were possible for people to decide what their talismans would be (aside from playing the game until you have them all), then they could just as well throw the talismans away and add a couple of slots onto every armour.

That is an exellent point. If that were ever to happen I wonder if a base skill might incorporated into the weapons. It might create a bit more variety in the weapons that would be used. But that's off topic.

Like dcj keeps saying, nothing is set in stone yet. But if locked charm tables do find their way into the game it might even be a good thing.
For those who want to have the best charms they can get, they can take the information about the tables and make characters until they get into the table they want. With the number of alternate characters floating around here this shouldn't be too big of an issue. Being in the right table could significantly improve the chances of actually finding the charm that you are looking for.
For the people who don't care (read casual gamers), they will do just that, not care.

My thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:31 pm

Good point ADN... IF this is also the case.. which I still am skeptical of..

It will also promote the use of Multiple weapons, Multiple character creation and the use of a varitey of armors and Mixes instead of people aticking with just one set throughout the whole game... Though there may be a lot of people finding negatives to this, there might be a lot of possitives CapJap was looking at as well.
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:00 pm

@A Drunk Ninja wrote:
...

That is an exellent point. If that were ever to happen I wonder if a base skill might incorporated into the weapons. It might create a bit more variety in the weapons that would be used. But that's off topic.
...

Personally, I think if something like this happens, it will just pigeonhole people into using weapons in a specific skill setup.

On topic though, charms are just a way to complement my gear with a small additional bonus, and if I couldn't do what I wanted without the charm, I highly doubt that the charm would push me over. However, if the goal is to do something you can ALREADY do at a much quicker or more dramatic pace, then yes... a charm can push you ever so closer to that. And for those that are in it to do this sort of thing, they are completely justified in being upset at how Capcom did this for the East... hopefully our release does not come with this oversight(?).
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PostSubject: Re: MH3U's Charm system Info (you will be perma-locked into a charm table)   Today at 5:23 pm

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