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 Looking for opinions on endgame armor.

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Crystaelis
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PostSubject: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:15 am

While I'm relatively close to G-Rank, I've been trying to develop possible end-game sets that I like; both in design and skills, which makes things somewhat difficult.

The set that I plan to obtain is the Zinogre Z, which is the Stygian Zinogre set. The armor's initial skills are:
-Focus
-Evasion +1
-Dragon Attack +1
-Peak Performance (aka: Full Charge)
-Recovery Down

Recovery Down is easily removed, and Peak Performance has been grabbing my attention, with Evasion +1 being nice and Focus being an extra...something.

My main weapons include the Longsword (most common), Switch Axe (occasionally), and Greatsword (not often, struggling to use effectively). I am also in Charm Table 13.

Over time, I created several sets using skills I believe may be useful.

Unfortunantly, I do not know how to set up a spoiler tag to hide web addresses.

Set 1:
http://mhag.info/mhtrig/viewset.htm?s=Unnamed%20Set%20:%20G.B.H.274.1.23.C.278.0.A.271.1.23.W.267.0.L.277.1.135.Y.0.2.29.6.12.10.0
Thinking that RecSpeed+2 may be useful in keeping PeakPerformance up while saving on potion usage, and having Evasion+2 to avoid getting hit in the first place. If I get hit, run around waiting for the opening to down a potion, and while running around like a headless chicken, the red section of my health bar will recover, meaning I could use a weaker healing item, or use less items to trigger Peak Performance.

Set 2:
http://mhag.info/mhtrig/viewset.htm?s=Unnamed%20Set%20:%20G.B.H.274.2.89.89.C.278.1.89.A.271.2.89.89.W.267.0.L.277.1.135.Y.0.2.47.5.16.10.0
Razor Sharp is nice, and I suppose Critical Eye +1 is something. I know the Zinogre X set has Razor Sharp, but I prefere Peak Performance over Latent Power +2, as it will be more reliable, assuming I can avoid step damage and random minion attacks.

Set 3:
http://mhag.info/mhtrig/viewset.htm?s=Unnamed%20Set%20:%20G.B.H.274.0.C.278.1.43.A.271.2.43.43.W.267.0.L.277.1.135.Y.3.1.22.3.1.44
I don't like the design of the Azure Rathalos set. I seriously don't. I'm not even sure if I want Earplugs or just rely on Evasion+1 or Evasion+2 to roll through the roar.


I understand that none of these sets has Sharpness+1. I find that it is too difficult to try to gem in, and that any set that does have the skill are armor sets that I do not like, specifically in design. Yes, I know I am being picky and unreasonable when it comes to my armor, but I really want to enjoy what my character will look like in the end.

I appreciate any opinions on these sets, along with suggestions to improve them without changing armor pieces or other possible combination of skills. Thanks in advance.


Off-topic: Why is there no costume slot or similar function? It would make my decision making so much easier.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:15 am

I'm not a huge fan of Peak Performance due to how tedious it is to maintain, but if you're set on it, I'd go with the Evasion+2 and Recovery concept as the best way to maintain it.
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:28 am

-Focus
-Evasion +1
-Dragon Attack +1
-Peak Performance (aka: Full Charge)
-Recovery Down


Focus = arguably useless especially on ls since saving yourself from 1 attack before every spirit combo (which you'll find hard to execute anyways) is a total waste since although yes the spirit combo is the most powerful combo a ls can perform it is not ideal in most situations and you're better off sticking to staying at a full bar for an attack bonus.

Useless on switchaxe, you should almost always be in sword mode hence reloading often. Distraction is better

Greatswords despite common belief are about timing. Focus is a unnecessary crutch on anything not named jhen that'll hinder your gs growth.

Evasion+1 = very handy skill to have and increases your damage output somewhat if usable. No bad comments to say. Evade+2 is often unnecessary. There is next to nothing on land that you'll be able to avoid with +2 that you can't already with +1.

Dragon Attack+1 = awful skill. There are few monsters weak enough to dragon to warrant its use (elder drags, abyss lagi, agna) With only stygian weapons you're not getting far. Hell I'd argue even slime is better than dragon even on monsters weak to dragon due to giving you much more leeway with hitzones.

Peak Performance = In theory it's good I mean sure getting some random 5% damage increase when a monster is in rage mode sounds good.... but that's the time where you're least likely to attack since a monster will be attacking most and thus being much harder to hit. Not to mention the majority of the time monsters are fatigued/non raged so it's useless a good majority of the time.

Rec down: Needing only one slot to get rid is laughable.

Razor Sharp is good..................................................................... but until G rank ala comes stygian is only a meh armor.


Overall stygian armor is good when ala weapons are released but it doesn't really help your offense.

Caedeus Z + X waist
Sharp+1 and HGE. The two ultimate damage increasing skills in game.
Sharp+1 makes your weapon gets sharper and more than likely pushes your sharpness to a higher level thus increasing damage output.

HGE = one of the best mixed skills. It protects you from roars (which are brutal when there are two monsters in an area to stop the second monster from hitting you) and as a bonus it gives you more time to attack rather than wasting time rolling/covering your ears.

Ontop of that you get 7 slots + charm. Which can be gemmed to suit your needs.


Nether armor or Yamato Z are also solid options.

Overall jinouga sub armor is good but nowhere near gamebreaking until ala weapons come in which case all hell breaks loose.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:32 am

Your commentary on Peak Performance doesn't sound relevant to the skill .-.
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:42 am

I swear peak performance was the thing that gives you a damage increase when a monster is in rage mode.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:46 am

No, it boosts your attack when at max health.
Never even heard of a skill that does what you stated.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:51 am

I swear it was on one of the armor sets "shrugs". If that's the case then that's even worse... since it's next to impossible to maintain. I doubt tc is at the level of play where s/he can avoid getting stepped on for tiny amounts of chip damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:54 am

It's far too tedious regardless of skill. It also takes focus away from fighting to heal every little poke.
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:13 am

Oh hey I was right. Of the three temporary boost skills.

Challenger = 5% when monsta is enraged
Latent power+1/2 = 30% affinity and 1/2 stamina drain at +1 for latent power+1
50% affinity and 3/4th stamina drain at +2.

The trigger? Taking 180 damage or being in the same zone as a monster for 5min. It lasts for a good 90 seconds.

Peak Performance = 5% at full health.


I swear Peak performance is harder to maintain than adren.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:51 am

My Shakalakas are almost always doing their healing dances. Even when I'm at full health. Depending on the situation, Peak Performance may be viable.

I find Latent Power rather random and Challenger to be somewhat useless due to the nature of enraged monsters.

I'm not very skilled at all, but I find I take less step damage when using a Longsword, and suffering almost constant damage with a Switch Axe, likely due to my habit of using the Fade Slash often and abusing the SA Sword mode...
I know Focus is basically useless for LS and SA, but never really heard it being a crutch for GS. Even then, I'm not very happy with using a GS in the first place.

@haruno
I know that both Ceadeus sets and Hallowed Jhen set are basically considered some of the best sets in the game due to their skills. I just don't like the Egyptian theme for the Ceadeus sets and the Yamato set has those awkward shoulder spikes...yes, I know I'm being rather unreasonable.

I'm prone to trying to heal my full health bar when I'm hit, so Peak Performance might be easier for me to maintain.

Would you say that Zinogre Z is a good set to use for Alatreon weapons if equipped with Razor Sharp? Mind explaining that thought, please?
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:27 pm

@Crystaelis wrote:
While I'm relatively close to G-Rank, I've been trying to develop possible end-game sets that I like; both in design and skills, which makes things somewhat difficult.

The set that I plan to obtain is the Zinogre Z, which is the Stygian Zinogre set. The armor's initial skills are:
-Focus
-Evasion +1
-Dragon Attack +1
-Peak Performance (aka: Full Charge)
-Recovery Down

Recovery Down is easily removed, and Peak Performance has been grabbing my attention, with Evasion +1 being nice and Focus being an extra...something.

My main weapons include the Longsword (most common), Switch Axe (occasionally), and Greatsword (not often, struggling to use effectively). I am also in Charm Table 13.

Over time, I created several sets using skills I believe may be useful.

Unfortunantly, I do not know how to set up a spoiler tag to hide web addresses.

Set 1:
http://mhag.info/mhtrig/viewset.htm?s=Unnamed%20Set%20:%20G.B.H.274.1.23.C.278.0.A.271.1.23.W.267.0.L.277.1.135.Y.0.2.29.6.12.10.0
Thinking that RecSpeed+2 may be useful in keeping PeakPerformance up while saving on potion usage, and having Evasion+2 to avoid getting hit in the first place. If I get hit, run around waiting for the opening to down a potion, and while running around like a headless chicken, the red section of my health bar will recover, meaning I could use a weaker healing item, or use less items to trigger Peak Performance.

Set 2:
http://mhag.info/mhtrig/viewset.htm?s=Unnamed%20Set%20:%20G.B.H.274.2.89.89.C.278.1.89.A.271.2.89.89.W.267.0.L.277.1.135.Y.0.2.47.5.16.10.0
Razor Sharp is nice, and I suppose Critical Eye +1 is something. I know the Zinogre X set has Razor Sharp, but I prefere Peak Performance over Latent Power +2, as it will be more reliable, assuming I can avoid step damage and random minion attacks.

Set 3:
http://mhag.info/mhtrig/viewset.htm?s=Unnamed%20Set%20:%20G.B.H.274.0.C.278.1.43.A.271.2.43.43.W.267.0.L.277.1.135.Y.3.1.22.3.1.44
I don't like the design of the Azure Rathalos set. I seriously don't. I'm not even sure if I want Earplugs or just rely on Evasion+1 or Evasion+2 to roll through the roar.


I understand that none of these sets has Sharpness+1. I find that it is too difficult to try to gem in, and that any set that does have the skill are armor sets that I do not like, specifically in design. Yes, I know I am being picky and unreasonable when it comes to my armor, but I really want to enjoy what my character will look like in the end.

I appreciate any opinions on these sets, along with suggestions to improve them without changing armor pieces or other possible combination of skills. Thanks in advance.


Off-topic: Why is there no costume slot or similar function? It would make my decision making so much easier.

Ah yes, I LOVE my Stygian Zinogre armor. I just gemmed out recovery down, and used a talisman to gem in critical draw, and so I use it as a great sword set, because crit draw + focus makes for a hell of a great sword charge. The dragon damage increase is nice as well because I use the Stygian zinogre GS, and in 3U, the GS charge actually amplifies the amount of elemental damage you do.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:16 pm

@haruno wrote:
-Focus
Evasion+1 = very handy skill to have and increases your damage output somewhat if usable. No bad comments to say. Evade+2 is often unnecessary. There is next to nothing on land that you'll be able to avoid with +2 that you can't already with +1.

HGE = one of the best mixed skills. It protects you from roars (which are brutal when there are two monsters in an area to stop the second monster from hitting you) and as a bonus it gives you more time to attack rather than wasting time rolling/covering your ears.

Evasion+1 is not only about evading attacks. If so, you probably don't need it at all to avoid 3/4 of attacks in the game, it only takes skill.

You're forgetting that Evasion is a great skill when it comes to evading monster's roars. In Tri most monsters require only earplugs or were easily roll through with Evade+1. So in Tri earplugs were ok, if u're not facing diablos, nox, ala, jho, jhen, deus. If i recall properly you can roll through roars of ala, jho and all monsters which require only earplugs with only +1.

Hovever, in 3U they add so many monsters like Dios and all monsters subspiecies that earplugs seems like waste of slot. HG earplugs is only reliable option now. And this brings us to Evade+2. As for now in 3U with so many monsters requiring HGE, Evade+2 looks like the only option to go. I tested it for some time, and if i'm not wrong you can easily roll through Diablos, Gigginox (which were un-rollable in Tri i guess). Also all rath (with +1 it's next to impossible).

tl:dr - Evade+2 is superior skill to HGE since not only gives you ability to avoid nearly all roars in the game (not test Jhen, Hollowed, Lucient yet) but also makes your dodges easier, which can save your ass few times. Of course it's all about right timing. HGE is just poor alternative. Your statement about "giving more time to attacks" is irrelevant. I can easily roll through monster roar and land full lv3 charge with GS on it's head. HGE just loses in this comparition not to mention it takes absolutely no skill to use.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:24 pm

Correction: any roar can be rolled through without evasion +1 or +2, the timing is just down to a small fraction of a second. Because when you roll, there is a small invincibility frame, evasion+ adds small fractions of a second to these invincibility frame. But any roar can just be rolled through with timing, however it's extremely difficult, I can only semi consistently do it against nargacuga.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:36 pm

I know but you really counting that such small possibility as something to rely on? As for me skills are something stable which improve your performence. Even with Evade+1 i'm evading ian's roar 1 out 4 times. So called invincibility frame vary from monster to monster. For some it's too small to master rolls no matter how good you're.

Let's put aside theory and back to earth - pick up evade+2 to roll through most roars in the game with little skill and lot of realiability. Evade+1 - few monsters, few roars, need skill. No evasion skills - roll with your fingers crossed and mabye you're lucky.

Also this case reminds me this one time which i counter ura roar with GS upswing... not sure if bug or what. I was certainly in the range of roar.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:30 pm

@Antari18 wrote:
@haruno wrote:
-Focus
Evasion+1 = very handy skill to have and increases your damage output somewhat if usable. No bad comments to say. Evade+2 is often unnecessary. There is next to nothing on land that you'll be able to avoid with +2 that you can't already with +1.

HGE = one of the best mixed skills. It protects you from roars (which are brutal when there are two monsters in an area to stop the second monster from hitting you) and as a bonus it gives you more time to attack rather than wasting time rolling/covering your ears.

Evasion+1 is not only about evading attacks. If so, you probably don't need it at all to avoid 3/4 of attacks in the game, it only takes skill.

You're forgetting that Evasion is a great skill when it comes to evading monster's roars. In Tri most monsters require only earplugs or were easily roll through with Evade+1. So in Tri earplugs were ok, if u're not facing diablos, nox, ala, jho, jhen, deus. If i recall properly you can roll through roars of ala, jho and all monsters which require only earplugs with only +1.

Hovever, in 3U they add so many monsters like Dios and all monsters subspiecies that earplugs seems like waste of slot. HG earplugs is only reliable option now. And this brings us to Evade+2. As for now in 3U with so many monsters requiring HGE, Evade+2 looks like the only option to go. I tested it for some time, and if i'm not wrong you can easily roll through Diablos, Gigginox (which were un-rollable in Tri i guess). Also all rath (with +1 it's next to impossible).

tl:dr - Evade+2 is superior skill to HGE since not only gives you ability to avoid nearly all roars in the game (not test Jhen, Hollowed, Lucient yet) but also makes your dodges easier, which can save your ass few times. Of course it's all about right timing. HGE is just poor alternative. Your statement about "giving more time to attacks" is irrelevant. I can easily roll through monster roar and land full lv3 charge with GS on it's head. HGE just loses in this comparition not to mention it takes absolutely no skill to use.
wut.............

Terrible analogies. Unlike tri the game is SLIGHTLY more generous with evasion frames so evading normally through most attack is quite doable whether it be through invincibility frames or being out of the attacks hitbox entirely.

As for HGE vs evade.

HGE = attack attack attack during a roar
evade+2 = roll => reposition (assuming you roll through the roar) => attack which is much more time consuming than just being immune to roars.

Yes evade does create SOME attack oppurtunities but the majority of the time not. Some examples of where it doesn't.

Anything charge. Blos charge, barroth charge, jho swiping charge, ura roll, etc. All these attacks are easier to evade with well evade but you can't exactly use them as attack oppurtunities.


Also the fact that you said you can't roll through lucent narga's roar without evade skills is laughable.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:50 pm

@haruno wrote:
Oh hey I was right. Of the three temporary boost skills.

Challenger = 5% when monsta is enraged


wat.

Challenger +1 = AuS and Crit Eye +1
Challenger +2 = AuL and CE+2

During rage mode.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:12 am

@haruno wrote:
Terrible analogies. Unlike tri the game is SLIGHTLY more generous with evasion frames so evading normally through most attack is quite doable whether it be through invincibility frames or being out of the attacks hitbox entirely.

Well that's what i wrote duhhh "you don't need it at all to avoid 3/4 of attacks in the game, it only takes skill". But evade it's not only about evading monster's attacks.

@haruno wrote:
As for HGE vs evade.

HGE = attack attack attack during a roar
evade+2 = roll => reposition (assuming you roll through the roar) => attack which is much more time consuming than just being immune to roars.

Yes evade does create SOME attack oppurtunities but the majority of the time not. Some examples of where it doesn't.

Anything charge. Blos charge, barroth charge, jho swiping charge, ura roll, etc. All these attacks are easier to evade with well evade but you can't exactly use them as attack oppurtunities.

Sorry sir you're not right. HGE does not create any more oppurtunities to attack than rolling through. As for GS you can land exacly one lv3 charge on monster with HGE and one with roll. You can follow it with slap with HGE but hey, is it worth it? You don't have eade skill to support you for slap? For that pathetic dmg not having all profits from evade skills? Same goes with Hammer charge, LS not to mention swaxes. It's funny that this comparision even benefits rolls because they cut the distance between you and monster in most cases, so you can approach it and attack faster.

Also don't know what you mean by bringing up charges. I thought we're talkin about monster's roars and attack opportunities created by them. What does charges have to do with them?

HGE is usable only 5-6 times per quest when monster roars. Evade skills are usable through all the quest and the time when monster roars. Sorry for hurting your feelings but as for me HGE is just for lazyass who don't wanna bother evading roars. For evade you get 2 in 1, while with HGE you get only one.


@haruno wrote:
Also the fact that you said you can't roll through lucent narga's roar without evade skills is laughable.

Well sorry for not being able to play the game 24/h. When i'm ready i face Lucent and comfirm it as i wrote above >_< It's that i don't like basing my opinion on presumptions made by someone.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:27 am

HGE will cut out a number of roars evade doesn't work on. It'll also always work. You won't have to stop a combo to suddenly time your roll. Often times you're in an attack as it is.
And that "slap" is additional stamina draining k.o damage that can make a fair impact for an experienced gs usee. If anything evade+2 is "lazier" in practice. Precision is thrown out the window in comparison.
This coming from an evade lover.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:01 am

@Akai the White Lightning wrote:
HGE will cut out a number of roars evade doesn't work on. It'll also always work. You won't have to stop a combo to suddenly time your roll. Often times you're in an attack as it is.
And that "slap" is additional stamina draining k.o damage that can make a fair impact for an experienced gs usee. If anything evade+2 is "lazier" in practice. Precision is thrown out the window in comparison.
This coming from an evade lover.

HGE works great with Kelbi bow spaming on arena and underwater like when fighting Abyssal Lagi. Other than that Evade skills works better for me. You don't have to agree with me. And yeah, what roars you can't roll through? Jhens? Miralis? Not sure, have to test it. Also, with evade+2 it's so easy to roll that it will always work considered you're focused. Also not sure how it's lazier to evade than not to evade but ok. In my book doing somethin is not lazier than not doing something.

MH is not about spaming combos. You have to observe and react. Predict when the roar will come and react. With HGE you don't have to react. Just spam like nothing happened.

K.O. by slap in 3U is so rare that it really, really doesn't matter. It's not Tri anymore. Even with punish draw and slugger it's just mabye.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:30 am

Diablos's scream is a big one. Anything underwater as well.
And Evade+2 just feels incredible excessive. It takes almost all the need for any sort of precision. You just roll and invincible. All those frames. You don't need skill anymore really, just the knowledge of how to press the roll button.
Even then, as I was saying, rolling interrupts your combos, it's a moment taken out of fighting. You'll spend about the same amount of time evading attacks with it without it. HGE just takes one of those moments, rorars, and eliminates it, thereby adding to the amount of time you are able to attack 100% of the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:15 am

I think they fix it in 3U so now you can roll through Blos and Nox BIG roar with Evade+2. I think i did that few times, but hey i might be just lucky and catch those impossible frames.

With HGE it's the same like you said with Evade+2. You don't need skill you just need to know when to press the attack button when monster roars for free dmg. Dunno if you're trolling or not but really...

Rolls interupts your combos... Ok, let's try the other way. Let's say you use LS or swax. Without Evade+2 you end up being hit here and there. So naturally you need to heal. So your combos are being interupted by slow healing animations. "It's a moment taken out of fighting". With Evade+2 frames are extended so with little skill you barely take hit. You don't lose time for healing. In other words in the longrun you attack faster, do more combos etc.

As far as underwater fights are concerned, yes it's better with HGE but how many monsters in game are locked to underwater combat? Gobul, Plesioth doesn't scream, Lagi goes on land ocasionally. The only monster i can come up with is Abyssal Lagi and Goldbeard.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:56 pm

Why do I bring up charges? Because its the most common attack in game shared by well.... Every monster that's not a great xxxggi. Evade leaves little to no attack opportunities against this common and often spammed move.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:17 pm

To the op. I think the stygian zinogre armor looks like an awesome option. I want it for bowgunning. I think evade and unhurt would work awesome together. I also feel that for a hammer or gs User focus is a viable skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Looking for opinions on endgame armor.   Today at 7:12 am

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