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 The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists

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What do you think?
You have a good point Nana @_@;
62%
 62% [ 16 ]
No way! all speed runners are cheapo elitists!
8%
 8% [ 2 ]
Chips is the most mannered and skilled hunter, i accept him as my Eiyuu Ou! (King of Heroes)
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Total Votes : 26
 

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Kanade
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PostSubject: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 1:37 am

Most people here like to play Tri like me and that's just having fun beating random monsters with various weapons dressed in fashionable (yet functional) suits

Most of us have probably encountered the "Elitist" and we think of them, "wtf?! why they kicked me out?! they're speed running?! that's so cheap they must suck!"

But what if those players hunters just like you have fun playing most efficient as possible? and when you enter they're thinking... "wtf?! gotta kick this guy out, armor skill set dps isn't high enough and he's using a derpy weapon, that's so lame they must suck!" (Think how you feel when an "No Skills" set guy walks in and joins your Ala quest)

Most people will think I am a speed runner because of my HR but I've been on both sides of the coin, having played freestyle for 2500 hours and 999 HRs just derping around with stuff like Scholar armor and Yan Yue Dao G to my 3rd character 400 hours and 450 HRs which I have ran with speed runners on quests like Barilos and World Eater... I guess being revealed to the "other" side of things have opened my eyes a bit

so I present you with a question, aren't freestylers who look down on the "efficient" hunters for their "cheap" tactics in fact the Elitists themselves?

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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 2:16 am

I have seen both sides of the coin both extremes are filled with elitists but then there are nice people in both sides I have no particular style I am always switching depending on my mood.
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Oron
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 3:07 am

Yeah, I'd say the elitists are any players who look down on others regardless of which side of the coin they fill, be it the "efficient" hunters or the "freestylers."

I've seen some of both, but thankfully not many.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 3:40 am

I'm partially an elitist, however I only dislike armor mixers that get nothing beneficial..
Even people who think they are "all that" when they use low rank armor when fighting high rank monster... and lose while wondering what went wrong (those 3 w's.... er 4 if you count wondering)


Now, I'm not particularly like: "No you suck, I don't wanna play with you."
I'm a sweet-heart and go hunting with them anyway, no matter what armors or equipment they use.

I simply give people a chance, even when people come rushing in to do the speak of the deviljho event with low rank gear... Mostly, I do it so that they can learn a lesson about rushing their progression.

People gave me a chance when I started out, so I do the same, but not everyone is that fortunate.


Now, I'm not too fond of other elitists on this game though, since a lot of them are not only insensitive, bitchy, and annoying, but they are sometimes pretty ignorant.
Quite a bit of elitists are.... How do I say this... They go through the game with what they think they know and down anyone who does something differently..
A secondary weakness of a monster to them doesn't even exist.
Have a monster weak to thunder and its secondary weakness is water (Quiet, I know it doesn't exist!) and the guy will say that the weapon you use won't do anything...
I see this a lot when I fight barioth with a thunder weapon.
When I use a thunder lance instead of the fire one, I will be told by someone that I'm not using an element that will hurt bari... I ignore them and continue on the quest.



Now there are also people that desperately want 4 people in a quest to "guarantee" victory... And act as if nothing else except for a party of four player can complete a quest..
Even when I say I solo a jho, some people say I'm crazy or I hack.. :/
These people can sometimes annoy me more than elitists when it comes to jhen quests.
They sit there.... waiting.... Hours even... with 3 people in the city... and leave when no one shows up...
Then I get my gear set up and solo jhen.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 3:57 am

I think that's less elitism and more not knowing otherwise/being too afraid to try alternatives. Which, admittedly, does tie in with elitism at times when they start putting other players down for not following a specific playstyle/setup. I think that's the problem with all of the guides that have been made by other players. Some people don't see them for the guidelines that they are and interpret them more as walkthroughs - they simply assume that the method being explained to them is the only method worth trying. And the people that wait for ridiculously long periods of time for a full city: well, either they lack confidence in themselves and their teammates or they think that once they get a full city, they'll complete quests so much more quickly and everyone will hang around, making the wait worth it. It hardly ever is worth the wait, though.
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Win32error
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 6:35 am

I feel like you're missing the point in what elitism is. It's not about speedrunning or using the best armour there is, but actively looking down upon those who do not agree.

About 10% of the hunters i meet on the EU servers will belittle those using anything but the best there is, whenever they can. Hunting with 2 friends using teddy bear armour? They come in and educate you that there really are better armours out there, usually pointing it out in a rather nasty way.

The reason these guys do it probably because of the rather large amount of hunters that do not know what they are really doing. Matching elemental weapons, mixing armour sets for little gain, using LR weapons in endgame HR, etc. These are not people trying to have fun, but just guys that think they're doing okay, while they screw up your hunt. This awakens a drive in some people to correct them whenever possible, and some take it way too far.

TL;DR: Elitism isn't the way you prefer to hunt, but rather trying to enforce that way upon others.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 7:47 am

What the hell is efficient fun?

In all fairness its a game. Someones gonna be better than you. If you're having a go at someone for playing differently to you ... That is just being a plain arse hole.

And surely you're speed running monsters just to be better than others anyway?

Just go kill monsters.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 8:14 am

It really doesn't matter what your playstyle is as long as you just respect others. If you see these when you enter a room:

"Cluster of GTFO"
"GTFO"
"Leave"
"Vangis w/ Gleam or GTFO"
or any variation of these...then you are a jerk, not an elitist.

I am perfectly fine leaving a room if you are trying to do something specific that I don't want to take part in (Jhen runs anoyone), just have enough respect to tell me in a nice or neutral way.

I've done many a speed run and I personally don't find it fun to just stand there and poke a monster until it dies or is capped. That doesn't mean I won't do any speed run, I just prefer to use my skills a little more than a fast kill.

Bottom line is as long as you respect others you can't possibly be considered an elitist; at worst you are a very helpful know-it-all. ;)

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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 8:32 am

Totally agree. everyone has an equal right to play with anyone and if you're planning to do something specific just be polite and say.

Its nice to be able to kill monsters faster and faster - shows you're getting better. But there is no need to constantly just kill the same monster as quickly as possible for one item. Just enjoy playing.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 9:48 am

Well all I have seen runners strive for is that red name for some reason that little red name has become holy. Lol what they do not realize is they are going to be ridiculed because of it all I see are the words noob hacker or anything along that line being used when a 999 approaches.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 9:52 am

@Win32error wrote:
Spoiler:
 
+1 to this, and I'd like to add an emphasis on 'some take it way too far''. I like people that have instructed me while being polite, for instance, lately I was doing Jhen+'s with a German dude who spoke English as well. At first, he seemed a bit of a douche, but that, in the end, was me being prejudiced, because after we finished our first Jhen+ (I say ''we'' pointedly, 1 guy left at the beginning, one left during the second phase), he started talking to me. We were both using Anguish (P)s, and he told me why he thinks, specifically, this is the best weapon to use during the quest (for me, during phase 1), as the main damage that can be done to the spine cracks once they're broken is the small crack at the top of them, which can be pretty easily targeted by a level 3 GS charge. People started joining, some of which had horrendous, as I understand them, sets and weapons. The German guy asked each if they had a better weapon, but if they said ''no'', he let them be. While we were waiting for the city to fill at various occasions, he also let me in on the fact that the ''World Eater'' is the best quest for Timeworn Charms.

He's what I'd call an ''efficient hunter'', knowing even the damage ratios of the various spots on the Jhen+ off by heart, and not afraid to share them. Now, an example of an ''elitist hunter'' came a day or two later, when ''World Eater'' came to town. I was going with two Ala Gleam users, another GS user and myself with my Anguish (P) again. The mission was at times very frustrating, for when the Jho fell down onto its side, the two lancers, one of whom was level 4xx, kept lance charging, sometimes knocking me and the other guy over, without apologising. I'm used to it, so I don't say anything, just try to avoid them after I noticed it. We weakened it, it went to area 6, so level 4xx says ''cap'' and sets a trap. I watch her and the other GS user throwing tranqs, and it manages to escape the quest, so obviously they missed it more than hit it with their tranqs. She says ''omg'', so I, as I had a pitfall trap left over, obviously set my own trap. Unfortunately, it pounces on me just as I set the trap, and before it can fall into it, I was going to die. I had Dung Bombs, so I make it smell like poo, and sadly, it takes effect, he sidesteps my trap and leaves to go to area 5. Obviously, I'm conciliatory about it, it wasn't my intention to make it leave, but before I can apologise, level 4xx lance charging extradoinaire starts eating my head off, calling me ''noob''. I point out to her the irony of her calling me a noob when she lance charged at any and every opportunity as me and the others follow it to 5 to finish it off. Now, here kicks in what you guys have been saying about elitists simply being ignorant and being adamant on having everything their way. She doesn't follow us to help, instead sulks and goes off to area 7, doing God knows what. I finish it off with a level 2 charge to the face, simultaneously scarring its face.

TL;DR? The efficient hunter was willing, if maybe a little reluctant, to let hunters will ''lesser'' gear come along on the quest with me and him, the elitist threw a temper tantrum when things didn't go exactly her way, and pissed off moping. Who's better? The answer should be obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 9:59 am

I see your point. But that's not really the definition of an efficient hunter, I assume from the first post they mean someone who speed runs everything for the most HRP per hour of their time.

I know a few monsters hitzones and damage ratios ect. I'll quite gladly help and advise people as to them, just being a wise and kind hunter.

Elitist hunter should keep their concerns to themselves, after all if they're so good at the game, they could easily pull a less experienced hunter along with them?
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 11:00 am

@Kanade wrote:
...some elitist said "...armor skill set dps isn't high enough and he's using a derpy weapon"
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 11:05 am

Lol did you just take a picture of that?
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 11:22 am

+1 for Pro DPS.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 12:10 pm

@Yuki wrote:
Lol did you just take a picture of that?
lol. I took that picture the other day. It's a pretty sweet coincidence that this thread was started.
@KratosAIK wrote:
+1 for Pro DPS.
XD
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 12:46 pm

@KratosAIK wrote:
And surely you're speed running monsters just to be better than others anyway?

Nope, there's plenty of other reasons to speed run for example

You can spend 10 minutes per quests on Blos+ for stout horns or you can spend 2 minutes, that is 5 times more chances of getting your item

You can spend 15 mins on a quest for Ala webbings or you can do it in 2 minutes, about seven times faster

You can spend 10 mins on Jhozilla for talismans or you can do it in 1.5 minutes... you get the idea...




And reply to win32error its not how I group elitists, efficient, freestyler, its just observations I've made around posts from the waaabulance - especially those that belittle higher rank players (which makes no sense because of they claim HR means nothing and is easy to obtain why don't they just do it themself) Such as when I search rooms I prefer ones with high rank people (300+) <- most people will probably think of this as elitism, you see KratosAIK thinks I am an elitist lol.

I don't care how its done as long as there is no hacking. Personally I prefer good clean hunts, meaning I can go fight a Jho with no skills set and Guan Dao and still kill it but it wouldn't exactly be a "clean" hunt such as with royal luddy set and Heaven's Thunder R. I don't consider myself a speed runner at all even if I participate in them. Anyone who's hunted with me here knows this Yes by vort

There's a lot of speed runners and clusters out there that are extremely good and very nice but they're grouped as an elitist because of their preferred tactics.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 12:57 pm

I see your point, But surely it defeats the fun on Hunting monsters just blitzing them all the time.

It's not elitist to want to play with people you're own Hunter Rank. But its when those people have a go at someone lower than them.

I also agree you can be good at something but it does get super annoying when everyone just clusting and rejecting you in rooms for not playing like them. If you wanted to do clusting with your mates please don't do it on Recruiting servers especially usable ones as you're wasting space for people who wanna meet new people and play for the fun of it.

It comes down to the fact that If you think you're better than someone at a game. You're obviously elitist. But if you try and help the person and are nice, and don't think yourself a higher 'being' you're just being pleasant. There's a clear line between being a nice hunter and not.

I don't think you are one, you're a nice person and I have never played with you for starters ;) But I have played with some arseholes. Haha


Subject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists Today at 4:48 pm
If only pro DPS were a real skill.

Pro DPS:-
Attack up (L)
Sharpness+1
Focus
Razor Sharp
Critical Eye+3
Mind's Eye

Hahah. Best!
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Kanade
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 1:02 pm

And another point to the people who say "there's no need to kill everything the fastest" I agree.

But Event quests like Bari+ Los come every month, most people have school and/or a job, so to farm HRP they need to be efficient especially if they only have time for every other cycle or even less.

Some of you guys prefer to use your skills more, or have more fun going toe to toe with the monsters - me too. But there are other guys out there that have just as much fun poking at non moving monsters for the fast kills yet we post about how much of a douche they are in waaabulances Sad by vort

I have a friend who's the nicest person you can ever meet on Tri, She speed runs and clusts and had people say some nasty things to her like "CLUST IS FOR PUSSIES GTFO!" to a city she made for clust runs?! My point is we ask to have our freestyle style be respected but we don't even respect other styles...

---

Thing is cluster rooms or speed run rooms AREN'T always friends only - people could be recruiting for those type of runs and believe it or not there are other people looking for those type of runs, whats fun for you might not be whats fun for someone else

---

Of course this is just to provoke some self reflection, I understand there's a lot of assholes out there on both ends of the spectrum
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 1:05 pm

Stuff we need to hunt again XD We haven't had a proper hunt since before I lost yuki
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 1:24 pm

@Kanade wrote:
...I prefer ones with high rank people (300+)...
Aww man. I can't play with Kanade. ;_;
@Yuki wrote:
Stuff we need to hunt again XD We haven't had a proper hunt since before I lost yuki
Yeah we do. I don't play too much though. Too busy with other stuff. Still, I do look at my friend list when I'm online ready to play. So you know I'll warp if we're both online.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 2:15 pm

@Kanade wrote:
I have a friend who's the nicest person you can ever meet on Tri, She speed runs and clusts and had people say some nasty things to her like "CLUST IS FOR PUSSIES GTFO!" to a city she made for clust runs?! My point is we ask to have our freestyle style be respected but we don't even respect other styles...

Akane… She gets a lot if grief over her clusting and speed running I am friends with freestylers and clusters it upsets me when they can not get along I don't have a set style lol you know from what little we have hunted I can run with freestylers no problem and I can also run with clusters and speed runners. I'll say I am a hybrid if the three I can do what ever I want when I want I user to hate speed runners and clusters because of my experience with them while helping a friend reach 999. What changed my opinion was getting to know other speed runners and clusters and seeing not all are bad people lol right now they are helping me grind back AGAIN after losing another character. They are running freestyle for me since I prefer it at least the first 100 ranks after that free game. I have changed a lot with my views after meeting wonderful people on both sides of the spectrum.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 2:22 pm

>totally not more of an elitist than I thought I was T_T

All hail Chippeh.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 3:10 pm

I consider myself a nice hunter. Not sure on which group though.
I do get stingy if someone goes into a Los+Ian mission with lagia armor because majoirity of the time, they get fireballed by Los right after he does his roar.

But I will ask if they might wanna change. If not, i shurg my shoulders and continue on my Quest. In a two monster quest, i personally make the team split into 2's. Which works great for me because when one is out, they can all focus on one that is already weakened.

I'll chat around with some if no one is really having a specific quest and just wants to collect something but it's not a "OMG I NEED THIS!" thing.

I guess i'm part eliteist because when I sleep Jho and someone attacks him. I'll try to say, Dont hit him. It happened once and called him an idiot. But things worked smoothly.

I personally like to do things with perfection (Due to the sense of mine to be a perfectionist) I try to be really prepared for anything in the quest, but I do sometimes forget a H. Drink or C. Drink. Which I call myself an idiot for.

But Speed-running? If i'm right, that is just like killing as quick as possible. I dont think i'm not that since of i like to see what I can get from kills. Barioth for example. We break a wing majority to just get him to slow down. Then breaking his tusks or cutting tail.
That's what I try to do with each one, trying to get the most out of it. But i'm not going to rush through it all. That's how you die.

Eliteist is someone who wants to do something their own way.
Efficient is someone all prepared and doing the mission but trying to make it easier (Getting group health up with Lifepowder, the A. Horn, flash bombing to stop an attack)
And Freestyle, i guess thats just fighting against a monster in a way that is not the BEST to kill. Say Los, wearing Jaggi armor and using fire GS. I'm guessing that's what it means.
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PostSubject: Re: The Efficient hunter vs the dreaded Elitists   Mon May 21, 2012 3:17 pm

I just do whatever the room wants to do :3
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