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 Bowgun Question

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Grossmond
Kelbi


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PostSubject: Bowgun Question   Thu May 02, 2013 5:53 pm

So I have read here and there that Normal is the new Pellet shot, and I can't say I argue with that logic after using it a few times. My question is this, is Norm 2 more consistent with damage long term then Norm 3 or the other way around?

I used GLs all the way up the end of High Rank and decided to swap to Bowguns which is what I primarily used in Tri, so I am playing a bit of catch up.
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Martoboyo
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 9:43 am

Basically, Normal 3 does the same amount of damage as Normal 2 if it bounces once every 5 shots:
Normal 2: 5 shots (5x 12%) = 60% of the weapon's damage
Normal 3: 5 shots (5x 10%) + 1 bounce (1x 10%) = 60% of the weapon's damage

So, Normal 3 will do more damage than Normal 2 like 99% of the time when fighting large monsters (small monsters are a different story ofc)

This thread gives exact info about all Bowgun Ammo damage if you want to know more:
http://mhwiki.forumotion.net/t1400-bowgun-ammo-damage-values
It may not be 100% accurate for MH3u, but it gives an idea
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Sai_
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 11:19 am

normal lv 2: all monsters
normal lv3: all large monsters like jhen mohran and monsters underwater
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haruno
Shagaru Magala


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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 12:46 pm

Pellet => jinouga/subspecies
Pierce => plesiosaur/Jhen (don't gun Jhen)/miralis
Normal => everything else BUT
Willuminator => rathalos/Ian and their non metallic subspecies. Abyssal lagiacrus, agna and its frozen subspecies
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 6:51 pm

Whats in your opinion best:

1. Pierce
2. Normal lv2, lv3
3. Pellet
4. Status

Bowgun. Name it please.


Last edited by Antari18 on Sun May 12, 2013 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sai_
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 7:01 pm

1. Griffon Blazooka (crouch fire only); Eclipse Gambit if going naked
2. Arkon Antiphon
3. Precision Pico Peco; Arzuros Ace if you are crouch firing
4. God's Archipelago
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haruno
Shagaru Magala


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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 7:54 pm

1. Eclipse Gambit
2. Hallowed Dracannon (or the nether one if you can stand insane deviation but it comes with an additional slot)
3. Precision Peco is really the only pellet gun.
4. Kettleblower line lbg (the felyne line)
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 8:20 pm

Griffon Blazooka looks fine at the beggining but deviation is large if i see corectly + no slots and -10 affinity. Eclipse Gambit looks way better, natural affinity and one slot no deviation and tiny recoil. The only downside is no crouch fire.

Deus gun don't fire normal lv3? o.O

How ppl stand deviation of Griffon Blazooka?
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Sun May 12, 2013 8:58 pm

Why do you have a cow for deviation? Most HBG have deviation, and it only requires you to aim slightly left or right. Griffon Blazooka has higher raw with limiter then Eclipse with limiter removed. There's a specific set in the armor set library for Griffon hbg that makes it superior to Eclipse.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Mon May 13, 2013 7:40 am

Can you post it here? I found only PierceS/PrceBow Boost, HGE, Recoil Down+1 and
Critical Eye +3, Recoil Down +1, PierceS/PrceBow Boost. Even with critical eye+3 Blos gun only have 20% affinity while Eclipse 70%.

Eclipse looks like type of gun which have more mobility, force you to rely on shot and rollin. Sidge mode force you to stay in place and shoot, can be difficult when solo because monster always focus on you. Good example is S. Zinogre arena with HBG...

On Tri i have a set with pierce boost, evade+1 and i dominate with it jho without help of status gunner because evade+1 made me invincible. Siege mode needs help of status gunner i guess, or i can be wrong i dunno
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Mon May 13, 2013 7:54 am

@Antari18 wrote:
Can you post it here? I found only PierceS/PrceBow Boost, HGE, Recoil Down+1 and
Critical Eye +3, Recoil Down +1, PierceS/PrceBow Boost. Even with critical eye+3 Blos gun only have 20% affinity while Eclipse 70%.

Eclipse looks like type of gun which have more mobility, force you to rely on shot and rollin. Sidge mode force you to stay in place and shoot, can be difficult when solo because monster always focus on you. Good example is S. Zinogre arena with HBG...

On Tri i have a set with pierce boost, evade+1 and i dominate with it jho without help of status gunner because evade+1 made me invincible. Siege mode needs help of status gunner i guess, or i can be wrong i dunno

Siege mode takes skill to use. S. Zinogre is not a good example because you wouldn't be using pierce on him. You would use pellet and even then, Arzuros Ace with crouch fire pellet can stun lock a Zinogre, as I have done to Stygian and solo killed him as the rest of my team took longer to kill Zinogre with slime weapons, and they were hitting him good.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Mon May 13, 2013 8:47 am

FYI on S. Zinogre arena you're not force to use pierce. You also have crouch fire on normal lv2. And normal pellet too. My example was that using siege mode is hard when monster glue to you all the time.

Siege mode is like looking for opportunity to crouch and mash one button but you can call that a skill. inb4 flame war. Kelbi bow stun lock is bad, but gun lock is fun. Logic.
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Mon May 13, 2013 7:58 pm

If siege mode isn't skill then hammering monsters, ko' ing them, and hitting them while they are ko'd isn't skill. Not to mention Monster Hunter is a game that one will need to look for an opportunity to hit and then continue to "spam" effective attacks, and by spam I mean strategically.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 11:33 am

I got a question. Is there any good pierce LBG? All i see is ppl using HBG with pierce. The main reason may be that for speedruns it's better to stay in one place and use siege mode. But as far as i can see Diamond Crest LBG have nice 4/5/5 clips for pierce and also rapid fire normal lv2. With load up it can be decent. So what's wrong with LBG? Lack of power is the reason for it being unpopular?

In Tri casuals i often use medium bowgun, so the lack of mobility of HBG really makes me sad. It took me more than 15 min to kill HR Jho with Nero's Blazooka because i have to look for op to crouch and fire...
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Animated_Shadow
Aptonoth


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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 12:14 pm

I use Merciless rage for LBG pierce. It can RF both level 1 and 2, as well as poison and sleep.
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 12:47 pm

@Animated_Shadow wrote:
I use Merciless rage for LBG pierce. It can RF both level 1 and 2, as well as poison and sleep.
never EVER RAPID FIRE PIERCE
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 12:52 pm

Well rapid fire is not an option for me because i like speed and mobility, so i probably remove limiter. I remember in Tri owning Jho in few minutes with my evade+1, pierce boost medium BG set. Rolling through everything he throws at me and shooting 5-6 bullets as payback. Good times. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with crouch fire, but i guess it's just not my cup of tea.

I just wanna know why nobody uses LBG pierce? Is it THAT bad?
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 12:57 pm

Yes it's that bad. For one hbg completely outclasses lbg at dps dealing. Secondly there is a massive amounts of recoil that is unfixqble which leads into problem 3 of being standing still doing shots. Not to mention pierce becomes pathetically weak after RF and aiming is next to impossible.
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Animated_Shadow
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 12:58 pm

What's wrong with RF pierce? :D I'm newish to bowgunning. I'll try it without limiter Anatari and try to get some times back to you so you can determine if it's any good. It's gotta just be damage or rather lack of. Huge difference between LBG damage and the now extinct MBG.
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 1:02 pm

Rapid fire shots use a bullets default recoil not the guns recoil. There will be shit tons of recoil to RF pierce/pellet and the damage reduction is a further turn off. This isn't drag S where even though there's insane recoil it's doing tremendous amounts of damage to make up for it.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 1:13 pm

@haruno: i'm not asking about RF pierce... because as you stated above it's recoil is huge and locks you in one place so it contradicts my idea of speed and mobility. I was asking about LBG in general. RF pierce is crap now and always was.

Also can't see on a paper how 414 Griffon Blazooka completely outclasses like Diamond Crest with 325. HBG is powerhouse but the need to find good opening to crouch and fire is making solo runs long enough. Well i see no one is using LBG pierce or even try it once.

It'll be best to test it myself on certain monster like Jho and than compare times.
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 1:29 pm

Comparing times doesn't do anything. In one run jho could be taunting the whole hunt while in another he spams is lunge thing. So because of this we compare damage as opposed to comparing times.

It doesn't completely outclass? It has a muh higher base damage ontop of power barrel, ontop of limited removal (or siege underwater) which brings its attack to a massive 500ish. While you're lbg is stuck in the mid 300's which is a massive difference in raw. Also it's a fact that hbg does more damage per second but lbg do more damage per bullet.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 1:46 pm

Well call me a noob but for me time matters. 15 minutes kill on HR jho with all and mighty HBG using pierce lv3 and lv2 is a huge joke. What about G rank one or savage? 30-40? HR Jho dies in less than 10 with swax. If i can kill it in 8 minutes with LBG than i'll go with it. Assuming Jho isn't taunting all quest, he charge all the time so you can land 4-5 bullets from siege mode max. Oh and you have to get up in time and hide your HBG. In the same time i can land full clip on him with LBG and avoid all stuff.


Last edited by Antari18 on Wed May 15, 2013 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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haruno
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 1:48 pm

Again different quests provide different results regardless to skill level (disregarding kettleblowers) so the best one can do is to compare damage rather than kill times.

Edit: also why the hell are you using siege mode? Unless you plan to stagger lock something to death you never use siege mode.
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Antari18
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Wed May 15, 2013 1:52 pm

Yeah i don't deny that HGE outdamages LBG. In terms of dmg it wins always. But you need to understand that there are other factors than dmg in this game that influence the outcome of each quest.

@edit: Griffon Blazooka got 5/4/4 and reload time takes forever. Also 1/1/1 in normal so how am i suppose to use it?
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PostSubject: Re: Bowgun Question   Today at 5:35 pm

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