Oni Zelkami wrote:

better then Brawl.

as long as it's actually competitive and offensively oriented rather than exploit wakeup times because everyone is slow as hell like brawl was

dcj91x wrote:

it's online as well, with friends. you have online friends don't you?

Like im going to waste time coordinating people to get on at the same time to get an experience thats essentially the same as random wifi. Physical friends? Yeah sure, thats different and actually worth it. online? no.

In other words. Nintendo can eat a dick for not only raising the price of the wiiu to 330 with the mario kart bundle, but then letting best buys handle the smash bros stuff. Yes, lets also give coupons to the store that never has stock for ANYTHING ON SALE as well, just for good measure. God its ni no kuni and fire emblem all over again. Guess I have to hope a less retarded store has the damn thing on sale before the nintendo deal ends and the wiiu truly becomes overpriced(again).

Oni Zelkami wrote:

Did anyone else play the Demo? Just got back from it. 5 minutes with it, and I can already tell it's better then Brawl.

Yeah, it's certainly playing out to be better than Brawl.
No more ridiculous L/R spam for recovery when being launched is a great plus.

Chipou wrote:

dcj91x wrote:

it's online as well, with friends. you have online friends don't you?

Like im going to waste time coordinating people to get on at the same time to get an experience thats essentially the same as random wifi.

What the hell are you talking about? Who said there wouldn't be Custom Lobbies?

You say that like custom lobbies does anything for the gripe i listed. Its still a pain in the ass to get multiple people on at the same time, for an experience thats still inferior to simply having them over as you cant directly interact with them over nintendos wifi. I admit I wasnt very clear on this. Does anyone have more information on to why an entire character is banned on wifi?

Chipou wrote:

You say that like custom lobbies does anything for the gripe i listed. Its still a pain in the ass to get multiple people on at the same time, for an experience thats still inferior to simply having them over as you cant directly interact with them over nintendos wifi. I admit I wasnt very clear on this.

I still don't see why this is Nintendo's fault. Organizing anyone to do anything gets harder without face to face interaction. Or is your complaint that it's draining resources? In which case that's such a stupid complaint I'm not even going to address it.

The Miis are probably all out banned Online because of the custom moveset setup. That kind of thing is just too hard to balance. They'll almost certainly be banned at tournaments too.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

I still don't see why this is Nintendo's fault.

I never said it was nintendos fault. Its a problem thats just inherent in every aspect of life, including trying to manage to get people to physically come over. This is entirely pointless though, as my original point is that it's stupid to have an entire character banned from wifi, regardless if you can use it with friends or not.

So miis dont just have a standard moveset like everyone else?

TKMT wrote:

Oni Zelkami wrote:

Did anyone else play the Demo? Just got back from it. 5 minutes with it, and I can already tell it's better then Brawl.

Yeah, it's certainly playing out to be better than Brawl.
No more ridiculous L/R spam for recovery when being launched is a great plus.

Can you elaborate? You mean air dodging is like Melee?

Sai_ wrote:

TKMT wrote:

Oni Zelkami wrote:

Did anyone else play the Demo? Just got back from it. 5 minutes with it, and I can already tell it's better then Brawl.

Yeah, it's certainly playing out to be better than Brawl.
No more ridiculous L/R spam for recovery when being launched is a great plus.

Can you elaborate? You mean air dodging is like Melee?

Looked like it from the tourney

I hope so. That means wavedashing might return. However, this is Nintendo we're talking about. They're gonna fuck up competitiveness because they think it's bad. Wavedashing wasn't even broken; it was fun to do but in no way was it a game changer.

Sai sakurai is trying to make it as competitive as it can be while not alienating casuals. From what I saw the gameplay looked faster than brawl and definitely more fluid. Hell he even added a for glory mode for the competitive scene I feel he is trying to appeal to both as much as possible I have faith in him.

Still happy that they have a "final destination" mode for terrible stages like the inevitable scrolling stage.

Sai_ wrote:

TKMT wrote:

Oni Zelkami wrote:

Did anyone else play the Demo? Just got back from it. 5 minutes with it, and I can already tell it's better then Brawl.

Yeah, it's certainly playing out to be better than Brawl.
No more ridiculous L/R spam for recovery when being launched is a great plus.

Can you elaborate? You mean air dodging is like Melee?

Watch a game of Brawl and see players at 70+ damage get knocked away. They instantly dodge/evade in the air with almost no delay.
That junk ruined combos... Except Meta Knight's Combos.

Air dodging still works like Brawl(where you carry momentum from gravity/physics when you dodge), but you can't recover instantly from being launched.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

The Miis are probably all out banned Online because of the custom moveset setup.

Palutena has a custom moveset similar to customizations the Miis get, yet she's not banned.
If you ask me, it may be because of one of the latest updates: Mii weight class. It appears that Smaller Miis are faster and weaker, while Large Miis are stronger and slower. There's a much larger difference between Miis and the standard fighters.

Plus maybe Nintendo is trying to keep kids safe by not allowing offensive Mii faces to ever have the chance of popping on screen.... There ARE reporting options, so banning Miis for potential harm is... not even giving the reporting option a chance.

Seriously? Are you sure about this? Even if she won't be banned online, that certainly means she'll be tournament banned, unless the default moveset is deemed balanced enough, or some tournament acceptable build is approved. To what extent is it customizable?

Oni Zelkami wrote:

Seriously? Are you sure about this? Even if she won't be banned online, that certainly means she'll be tournament banned, unless the default moveset is deemed balanced enough, or some tournament acceptable build is approved. To what extent is it customizable?

She uses different moves instead of edited moves like the rest of the cast's customizing movesets. EX: Mario's Fire Ball: You can customize it to either be weaker but shoot faster and farther, or large and powerful but moves at a snail's pace.

Miis and Palutena, however, get whole new moves when you customize the B attacks.

From the Main Smash Bros. Website:
http://www.smashbros.com/us/howto/entry2.html

"However, Mii Fighters and Palutena don't have spin-off variations, but rather completely unique types of attacks."

Since Miis are banned online, it's not because of custom movesets, it's something else.



I doubt Palutena, or even Miis will be banned from Tournaments. You set customization off, but they can still fight. I highly doubt that Palutena's beginning moves are so deadly that she's instantly banned. Same goes for Miis.

"Oh, by the way! I'd like to reveal a new challenger. Instead of doing the unveiling on something like a Nintendo Direct, we're going to live-stream the reveal on the official website on Monday, July 14, at 7:00 AM US Pacific Time (4:00 PM European Central Time). Looks like we're nearing the bottom of the stash of new challenger videos that we've made... Like always, we put a lot of effort into it, so I hope you'll enjoy watching it live."


https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqGG_w5Nyg

TKMT wrote:

I doubt Palutena, or even Miis will be banned from Tournaments. You set customization off, but they can still fight. I highly doubt that Palutena's beginning moves are so deadly that she's instantly banned. Same goes for Miis.

No, she won't be banned outright for having her default moves be OP. In almost all Mortal Kombat tournaments, Kratos is banned because he is a PS3 exclusive. Someone who plays mostly on Xbox won't know how to properly counter Kratos. It's a similar principle here. No one is going to properly know how to counter your set up. Say you've found some crazy counter to Mario with a specific combination of Mii Gunner moves for example. The enemy Mario won't know the match up well enough, because that custom moveset is so specific, while Mario's moves never change.

Besides, no one wants to wait around while you set the damn thing up.

those arguements aside, they'll probably be banned anyway. In Soulcalibur V, Soul of Devil Jin is banned because you can only give that moveset (it doesn't change) to a customly designed character.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

TKMT wrote:

I doubt Palutena, or even Miis will be banned from Tournaments. You set customization off, but they can still fight. I highly doubt that Palutena's beginning moves are so deadly that she's instantly banned. Same goes for Miis.

No, she won't be banned outright for having her default moves be OP. In almost all Mortal Kombat tournaments, Kratos is banned because he is a PS3 exclusive. Someone who plays mostly on Xbox won't know how to properly counter Kratos. It's a similar principle here. No one is going to properly know how to counter your set up. Say you've found some crazy counter to Mario with a specific combination of Mii Gunner moves for example. The enemy Mario won't know the match up well enough, because that custom moveset is so specific, while Mario's moves never change.

Besides, no one wants to wait around while you set the damn thing up.

those arguements aside, they'll probably be banned anyway. In Soulcalibur V, Soul of Devil Jin is banned because you can only give that moveset (it doesn't change) to a customly designed character.

Didn't they say all characters have customizable movesets? Not with as huge of a difference, but still.

I'm thinking it might be relegated to for fun mode, but it really depends.

Vortiene wrote:

Oni Zelkami wrote:

TKMT wrote:

I doubt Palutena, or even Miis will be banned from Tournaments. You set customization off, but they can still fight. I highly doubt that Palutena's beginning moves are so deadly that she's instantly banned. Same goes for Miis.

No, she won't be banned outright for having her default moves be OP. In almost all Mortal Kombat tournaments, Kratos is banned because he is a PS3 exclusive. Someone who plays mostly on Xbox won't know how to properly counter Kratos. It's a similar principle here. No one is going to properly know how to counter your set up. Say you've found some crazy counter to Mario with a specific combination of Mii Gunner moves for example. The enemy Mario won't know the match up well enough, because that custom moveset is so specific, while Mario's moves never change.

Besides, no one wants to wait around while you set the damn thing up.

those arguements aside, they'll probably be banned anyway. In Soulcalibur V, Soul of Devil Jin is banned because you can only give that moveset (it doesn't change) to a customly designed character.

Didn't they say all characters have customizable movesets? Not with as huge of a difference, but still.

I'm thinking it might be relegated to for fun mode, but it really depends.

No. All Characters have tweakable moves. For example, Mario can use the standard fire ball. In customization however, he can use either a multi fireball, or a giant fireball. Obviously, the standard fireball will be use din Tournaments. Palutena and Mii Fighters will have multiple varied moves. I don't know them exactly, but it's not the quite the same thing.

I'm sure someone will do a "For Fun" tournament at some point, but if this game goes to EVO, Palutena and Mii Fighters will probably not be allowed.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

No, she won't be banned outright for having her default moves be OP. In almost all Mortal Kombat tournaments, Kratos is banned because he is a PS3 exclusive.

Someone who plays mostly on Xbox won't know how to properly counter Kratos.

I guess that's understandable.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

It's a similar principle here. No one is going to properly know how to counter your set up.

...Unless you go by the DEFAULT movesets, which I'm sure is what Tournaments WILL focus on. By what you state, everybody might as well be banned due to not knowing ANYBODY's set up because of Custom Movesets.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

Say you've found some crazy counter to Mario with a specific combination of Mii Gunner moves for example. The enemy Mario won't know the match up well enough, because that custom moveset is so specific, while Mario's moves never change.

If that specific combination is the default moveset for Mii Gunner(The vanilla version of Mii Gunner at the very beginning of the game, unaltered.), and the Mii gunner practically BESTED EVERYONE, then yes, it would be banned. I doubt a projectile based character could render a reflection cape happy Mario obsolete.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

Besides, no one wants to wait around while you set the damn thing up.

Don't worry. Tournies will not have custom movesets in serious matches. Only friendlies at best.

Oni Zelkami wrote:

those arguements aside, they'll probably be banned anyway. In Soulcalibur V, Soul of Devil Jin is banned because you can only give that moveset (it doesn't change) to a customly designed character.

Miis have a default look(by the guest Miis) and default moveset at the beginning of the game. Devil Jin is strictly a Created Character, so it's pretty obvious he'd never see the spotlight in tournaments, due to Created characters being banned(Because of height and hitbox proportion preferences from created characters.) and, Devil Jin isn't selectable from the menu screen unless you create him.

Miis, on the other hand, can be selected from the get-go. They're not 100% custom characters, so they're much different from Devil Jin. The only problem would be is that players would prefer a smaller mii or a larger mii(The dilemma that plagues SCV right now for CaS) , so yes, Miis would most likely be banned NOT by move sets, but by height preference if it makes a big difference in the metagame.

Just because mario's moves were shown as "tweakable" doesn't mean other characters couldn't have more variation.

Vortiene wrote:

Just because mario's moves were shown as "tweakable" doesn't mean other characters couldn't have more variation.

You are correct.
Characters have some minor variations, like Kirby's standard b having ice breath, or Donkey Kong's B attack shooting a whirlwind.

But, as of now, the only characters confirmed to have unique moveset changes in B attacks are Mii fighter and Palutena. Everyone else appears to have "tweaked" moves.